nicrguy1966
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Posts posted by nicrguy1966
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10 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
you need to get to the bottom of why the advance showing is so far away from the basic spec
old fuel new fuel there is no reason things need to be as such and excessive advance is likely to crack up the pistons life .
dooesnt matter where the dizzy gear is timed as you just rotate the dizzy to suit assuming the vac doesnt foul on the other parts
and lack of lube on delco can be a disaster for spindle wear ,less so with lucas but any side float on the cam spindle will make points gaps very variable
electronics can help overcome that . but a squirt of oil down the base plate keeps the top unlubricated bush nicely oiled as it often states "oil"on the base plate
the vac unit just aids MPG if the spring inside has failed then static timing will always vary depends where it decides to stop.
Pete
I'll try to find out if the timing marks are way off this weekend.
Having had a little play with the dizzy (static), I'm fairly happy that nothing major is wrong with it. Also, when setting it with the strobe at idle, the timing was regular and stable, no variation. Electronic ignition should reduce the chance of "points gaps" changing and I detected no play in the spindle when checking that the rotor arm had some "spring" in it. I'll give it some revs to check the centrifugal advance is doing something this weekend (and give it some oil in all the right places too). I'm also treating it to a new rotor arm and cap.
With all this love, it will think it's got a new owner!
Based on all the feedback so far, I'm actually hoping the timing marks are off as then I'll know it's probably correctly tuned and there's nothing else to worry about. If the timing marks are in the correct place, I'll be scratching my head for what else to try. I'll post here once I've looked at the timing marks compared to where I think TDC is as soon as I've completed my investigation.
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1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:
the cars were designed and spec'd to run om 100 octane of the day
using 97/99ron E5 is as close as you can get to use the original settings
ive used only sainsbugs 97 since 2003 on both the rorty Vit6 and the current 2000 with std timing and no problems
95 ** was back in the day for side valves and motor mowers of low compression why on earth would you crucify the performance
by spending a £££s on Must Haves and then fill with low grade fueling ????? retard to make them run without pinking then wonder where the optimum performance
has gone .
just some rambling Pete
Unless the timing marks on my pulley are way off, retarding to stop pinking is the complete opposite of how my car is tuned! It's so far advanced it's making me nervous!
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7 minutes ago, Gully said:
My GT6 Mk 3 is set at around 10 degrees advance - I've tweaked it by about a degree in 10 years of ownership! Tickover is set slightly higher than the manual at c. 1000rpm, as it's always had a tendency to occasionally die at junctions when down at c. 850. Pulls fine across the rev range. I use Super Unleaded, generally with a fuel additive (which includes octane boost as well as lead substitute and anti-ethanol properties).
As many have outlined above - if it runs well when set 'by feel / ear', there can't be too much wrong; seems to point to the damper ring having slipped as per John D's research.
Gully
Maybe I need to invest in super unleaded then try again. Given the low mileage I do, it will not make much difference to the total cost of ownership.
The difference between normal unleaded and super unleaded plus an additive could be huge.
When set "by ear", mine ticks over quite happily at 600 rpm!
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49 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
simple piston stop is rework an old spark plug by fitting a bolt in place of the electrode so it just obstructs/contacts the piston on full stroke
no need to tamper with the timing cover or chain/gears ....wont help
if you do a drop test with a probe mind you dont trap it and loose it in the cylinder
there should be timing marks on the flywheel rim which you cant see as the clutch hsg. covers it (without a hole saw) so that wont help unless the engines ...out
Pete
I have plenty of old sparkplugs, they seem to breed!
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3 hours ago, JohnD said:
Nice guy,
My thanks to Pete for taking up my sermon!
Yes, in the situation you describe, very much worth checking where TDC really is, with a piston stop and a degree wheel on the crank. But if you can move the outer ( "inertia ring") part of the crank pulley on the hub, then clearly the rubber joint that does the damping has failed. If you are in any doubt, send it to me, and I will check it on my test rig.
John
I'll be taking a close look at the pulley this weekend, and also trying to set the crank to TDC to see what the timing marks say.
Hopefully I'll be able to find TDC (or near enough) by feeling the position of the piston through the sparkplug hole (using a screwdriver as I don't have a piston stop), but otherwise I may have to remove the timing chain cover (which I really would prefer to avoid!).
I'll report back when I've done this.
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Can the "correct" setting be as different as 12 degrees and 20 degrees?
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29 minutes ago, Paul H said:
Pretty sure mine is 19 / 20 btc in my mk 2 Vitesse
Paul
Great! I can cross out my to-do list and just consider this normal for today's conditions!
I've got my weekend back! Thanks!
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31 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:
13 BTDC is no longer valid, it doesn't work with modern fuel. My manual says front tyres 22, which is dangerous for modern tyres, mine are at 30. There are many things in the manual that should be looked at through modern eyes, does the manual say to change the brake fluid every 2 years? No, but we now know it should.
Doug
So what is the general opinion on the correct timing for our cars with modern fuel?
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30 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:
I don't use a strobe, I do it by ear or vacuum gauge. !3 BTDC is for 5 star, sadly no longer available, we had to readjust for 4 star, but now 5% ethanol means further adjust and 10% even more. There will also be slack due to wear in the system so the timing marks are meaningless. As Pete says the ring can slip. (I've seen John's machine to!)
Doug
So if it's workng OK, don't worry about what the strobe says?
That only works if every mechanic that tries to "tune" the vehicle in the future doesn't set it to factory defaults and make the car undrivable!
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13 minutes ago, johny said:
I think Colin if youre seeing the timing is correct with a strobe then there cant be much wrong with the distributor gear. Of course as Pete says if the pulley marks have moved then all bets are off😁
Yes, I was confused by this too.
The timing strobe was firing correctly at the factory settings, so the spark was reaching the sparkplug. Given the amount of effort to check the fitment of the distributor, this will be towards the end of my to-do list! (and I still don't fully understand how fitting the distributor one tooth out would cause the symptoms I'm seeing).
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2 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
if you dont belive the timing rings move ask JohD he has produced as aproject a 6cyl drive test rig to prove the harmonics of these dampers and the moving timing ring
its far more common than many realise when we got the 1600 many years back you could rotate the timing marked ring around to suit whatever you didnt want
it took a bit of fathoming out where the wild timing errors were coming from the proble is you cant re adhere the ring and they are becoming rocking horse pooh !!to replace
Pete
It's not that I don't believe anything anyone has written, the more suggestions the better.
I need a to-do list of things to try. It was easy to test the vacuum and centrifugal functions, so I did that straight away. I'll need a bit more time to try and figure out if the timing marks on the pully have moved, so that's a job for the weekend.
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7 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:
If the dizzy and toothed drive has been removed, then it has to be replaced in the proper orientation to make sure the rotor arm is at the correct spot for the spark. It's very easy to replace in an incorrect alignment, as the teeth are angled so you think you're dropping it back in correctly, but it's actually rotating as it drops and so settles into the wrong spot. If it's replaced even one tooth out, the timing marks are going to be off by a multiplication of that tooth. The general guide is: set engine at TDC, drop the drive gear in with the offset slot towards the front, and a line drawn through the slot will point to no 9 pushrod tube.
So if I understand you correctly, if the distributor is fitted "one tooth out", when at "factory recommended timing" the rotor arm will be in the wrong position for the connection on the inside of the distributor cap. By changing the timing several degrees more Advance, I'm losing power, but getting a spark that actually makes it to the spark plug?
Have I understood your coment?
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22 minutes ago, johny said:
Wow it would put me off driving and dont suppose it helps fuel consumption either!
Once set "by ear" rather than to recommended settings, it's a nice drive. My problem is that I'd like to know why it's so far from the factory default settings.
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1 hour ago, Nigel Clark said:
I'm also suspecting seized auto advance mechanism, struck in the retarded position. Take the distributor cap off and try twisting the rotor arm....
Does it move one direction and tend to spring back when released? If not, it's seized.
Nigel
I just did the above test, as well as sucking on the vacuum pipe. Everything seems OK with the distributor.
- The rotor arm moves about 1/4 of an inch and springs back in one direction, with no movement in the other direction.
- When I suck on the vacuum pipe, I can see stuff moving inside the distributor.
So with static tests, no distributor problems are detected.
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17 minutes ago, johny said:
Has the engine been left unused for sometime and not had its routine dizzy lubrication?
No and yes!
It has been used regularly (never more than 2 months between drives), but I have neglected routine maintenance as it only does about 1000 mile a year.
On the other hand, this isn't a new problem, it's something that I've been ignoring for years.
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34 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:
You could have a tooth out on the distributor drive, or again, as Pete says, the timing marks on the pulley aren't right. My Mk1 ran very well at some strange timing setting, when close to the factory setting it just died. I adjusted it by ear, and by actual driving and disregarded the readings altogether.
I'm not sure I understand the first point about the distributor drive tooth, but I've been following the second point for about a year (disregarding the readings, and setting it by trial and error)!
I just wondered if there was an easy fix, and if I'm losing a whole herd of horse power.
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1 minute ago, Nigel Clark said:
I'm also suspecting seized auto advance mechanism, struck in the retarded position. Take the distributor cap off and try twisting the rotor arm....
Does it move one direction and tend to spring back when released? If not, it's seized.
Nigel
Thanks, I'll try that too.
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13 minutes ago, johny said:
I wonder if your dizzy needs an overhaul. If the centrifugal weights are stuck and dont fly out to advance the timing as your revs increase the timing wont advance and performance will be poor. By advancing the timing at idle you are partially compensating for this but its not the solution....
Yes, that's on my to-do list.
Last time I tried adjusting the timing with a strobe I was on a deadline and didn't get to run it with/without the vacuum advance, and revved to see if the centrifuge weights were doing their thing.
I wish I'd taken the time as my rush to get the car ready for a drive meant I drove a car that was awful and I ended up doing a roadside timing adjustment without the strobe to get home.
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28 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:
i would check the timing /damper ring on the front pulley
the rubber bond breaks down and the timing ting can move/rotate on the pulley
so need to acurately get no1 at TDC and see just what the timing marks show ,,,,can be miles out
Pete
One idea I had was sticking a screwdriver in the spark plug hole for cylinder 1 to see if I could "feel" TDC from the piston position. Not at all accurate, but hopefully I'd be able to tell if the timing marks are 10 degrees or more out.
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Sorry if this is covered elsewhere, I did look, but didn't see anything similar.
I'm still investigating this issue, so I already have a partial "to-do" list of things to look at, but I was hoping for some input from others to rule in or out various causes.
The problem is that when I set the ignition timing to what it "should" be (13 degrees BTDC), the car runs terribly at all revs. No power. Stalls easily when pulling away, feeble acceleration, needs really high revs to do anything. This has caused me problems in the past, for example when I was at the South of England meet one year, there was a company tuning cars, and I hardly made it out of the field without needing to go back and ask them to reverse everything they'd done!
By trial and error, I've found a setting that makes the car drivable, but it's about 20-23 degrees BTDC at idle (Dynamic measurement, I have a timing strobe). I assume this isn't giving me the performance Triumph intended.
I still need to test the vacuum advance and centrifugal advance to make sure they're both doing something close to what they're expected to do.
Major changes since it left the factory:
- Running unleaded fuel
- Twin pipe stainless steel exhaust (original exhaust manifold)
- K&N air filters
- Aldon electronic ignition
At one point, I wondered if the timing marks on the crack-pully could be wrong, but from looking at the Haynes manual, it looks like there's a woodruff key, so should only fit in one position.
Does anyone have any ideas about what else could make the engine only run well so far from the original setting? Is it a problem I need to fix, or just set it to what works and warn all future mechanics?
Thanks in advance.
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1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:
The priming bulb is one I hadn't thought of. Hoses are relatively easy, even the small clear ones on mowers and strimmers, but that sort of part could be hard to find on older models.
Exactly. The hoses are the least of my worries. You can easily carry some spare and most are easily reachable for a roadside repair with very few tools. Even replacing them all shouldn't be expensive or that difficult.
The internals of the fuel tank, petrol pump and carburettor are a totally different story
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I didn't want to start a knew topic, but does anyone have any thoughts on how the new fuel will effect bits harder to reach than hoses?
I'm thinking about the fuel pump diaphragm, seals inside the fuel tank and carburettor, etc.
Thanks to Covid, I'm using my car for a lot less long journeys than usual, but I really don't want to be stranded due to my fuel pump or carburettor failing.
GT6 Mk3 only runs well with VERY advanced timing. Any ideas why?
in Electrical System
Posted
No significant problem, except that any time anyone (including me) tries to set the timing to the "correct" place, the car runs like a dog.
On my last drive, it wouldn't start for the return trip until I did a roadside adjustment to the dizzy back to the "wrong" setting that the car actually needs to run smoothly.
I'm also assuming that if it really is at 20 degrees BTDC, I losing power (but without a rolling road, I have no way to know for sure).