Colin Lindsay Posted June 22, 2022 Report Share Posted June 22, 2022 I have to ask, just in case it's one of those things that seems straightforward, but isn't. My 13/60 speedo isn't working any longer. I used the same original cable on the overdrive gearbox that I fitted, with an angle drive (and new toothed gear) and it was fine regarding length, no stretching or pulling. In the hope that it's not the gearbox end I removed the speedo today and tried the visible end of the cable, about 1/2 to 3/4 inch at the speedo end, pulled it out of the outer cable a little bit, pushed it back to fully seat it, but here's the question: should I be able to turn it? I don't think so - which is the worrying bit - as it should be in the gearbox drive and therefore gripped enough to turn it as it drives along. I was able to rotate the cable between finger and thumb quite easily... so unless there's some kind of one directional system whereby the gearbox drive will turn it, but otherwise it moves freely, I reckon it's banjaxed and will require tunnel removal. But: just thought I'd ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 22, 2022 Report Share Posted June 22, 2022 No, if the cable inner is correctly engaged in the angle drive you shouldnt be able to turn the speedo end more than the free play in the system. One possibilty is that the cable has sheared and you could try to pull the inner all the way out and see if its complete.... If this was the problem you might then be able to change the cable without removing the cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 22, 2022 Report Share Posted June 22, 2022 the outer case is a spiral wound thing, you can make the outer longer or shorter by using some grips and wind it up to shorten or unwind to lengthen the outer so you get more or less inner cable protruding sounds like your inner is too short and its not engaged in the angle drive fully so the outer needs winding up clockwise to shorten the outer Pete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 19 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: sounds like your inner is too short I think the cable has broken, or else the gears at the angle drive or gearbox connection are playing up. All has been replaced: drive gear, connections, angle drive... all bar the cable itself. I've tried reseating it at the gauge and pushing the inner down into the outer in hope it will press further into the gearbox end but no difference. I can't get at it from underneath either, especially not with the exhaust now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 on the truck assy it was quite common when the cab came over from the cabline the speedo should have been clipped up but when not the cable end used to get caught in the slat track before it joined the chassis and get stretched and winding the spiral was the solution its not a new idea Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 You should be able to withdraw all of the inner cable out at the speedo end to inspect for a broken cable. The tail end should be square. In the past, I have had the problem where the speedo end is not engaging and had to fit a spacer behind the ferrule fixed to the inner at the speedo end. It looks like a tunnel cover out job is imminent unless it is easier to remove the exhaust. More tunnel cover mods maybe for future fixes. I can only imagine the pain. Lloyd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: I think the cable has broken, or else the gears at the angle drive or gearbox connection are playing up. All has been replaced: drive gear, connections, angle drive... all bar the cable itself. I've tried reseating it at the gauge and pushing the inner down into the outer in hope it will press further into the gearbox end but no difference. I can't get at it from underneath either, especially not with the exhaust now on. If its the cable hopefully youve been lucky and avoided what normally happens which is it damaging the angle drive as well🤞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, johny said: If its the cable hopefully youve been lucky and avoided what normally happens which is it damaging the angle drive as well🤞 Amazingly I have a spare angle drive, but it's the bother of getting to it. You know how it goes, carpets all nicely in over new soundproofing, all seals nice and watertight, screwholes all lined up, and you think: that's it done. Then a month later it all has to come out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 Could cheat and just get a new cable and try sliding its inner into the exisiting outer? You never know might just work.... - scratch that as of course the old broken bit would still be stuck in there I suppose☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 if you pull the inner out from the speedo end any fracture would be obvious ,if it comes out and the squared off end is intact its not broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 If it is broken has anybody got a cunning tip for getting the broken bit out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2022 11 hours ago, johny said: If it is broken has anybody got a cunning tip for getting the broken bit out? I'm all ears... my fingers just will not fit through the available gap; I'm wondering if my set of plumber's pliers / grips will unscrew the business end... however it's not the removal, that's the easy bit. It's getting it back on again after replacing the cable that may be the difficult part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 24, 2022 Report Share Posted June 24, 2022 have you found it to be a broken cable Colin or something more sinister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2022 I don't know at present, Johnny - everything has been replaced, and when the car was first driven the needle waved about from, for example, 50 - 60 as the car drove. That made me think cable. I took it out on a Saturday morning, don't remember even looking at the speed, tried overdrive for the first time - it worked, turned it off again - then about a mile or so later noticed no speedo. I can't see how the overdrive would cause any problems, it works off the same gears regardless of whether O/D is on or not, so all I can suspect is that the slight jerk of the o/d coming on may have dislodged something. I took the speedo off, but need the car for two events today and tomorrow so can't get a good look until Monday, when I'll probably try pulling the cable completely out of the outer and inspect the drive end. Stupidly I didn't try turning the wheels while the car was on the ramp to see if the cable turned at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 why not just discon from the head and watch the dangling cable for turns as you drive ?? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 25 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: why not just discon from the head and watch the dangling cable for turns as you drive ?? Pete That may have been today's plan but on a run last night the overdrive gave up completely so it's carpets out, soundproofing off, and tunnel off. Again. I have brand new speedo cables on the shelf so should have things working again by tomorrow. Assuming of course the overdrive isn't playing up. Last night I moved off in first, went for second gear, and the car again gave a lurch as if overdrive was coming on... in second? So either something is shorting out and it's on all the time or else there's another reason which I can't identify. Going to replace both the column switch and the inhibitor just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 looks like your weather is against you again !!!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Sitting in a cafe with a large cappuccino instead of sitting at Brownlow House at a show. Chickened out, too cold and wet. Came home last night in rain, hood surprisingly good and wipers surprisingly poor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 This weather is ridiculous. Neighbours went away and asked us to water their garden if it failed to rain. It failed to rain all bloody week. Even wife washing the modern did not trigger it. Just about managed to lift their hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 We’ve had nothing but rain. Am cutting grass between showers. Same thing always happens when I have a convertible. Cold and breezy here this morning but some great cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Well, I got bored at the show - cold, it rained, I had too much coffee, three hours later.... hometime. Back to the Herald. Gearbox tunnel out - broke my heart to split those lovely sealed joins and totally ruin my foam seal, which was glued to both sides and was actually sealing. Removed the cable at the gearbox end and spun it between finger and thumb, speedo moved easily and freely, no binding or grating. So not that, then. Removed the angle drive... and: This is NOT a new problem, if other sites are anything to go by: https://www.triumphexp.com/forum/tr6-tech-forum.2/angle-speedo-drive.1475335/ Sadly that angle drive was supplied to the PO by a main dealer along with the kit needed to fit the overdrive gearbox back in 2005, so it's not something I can complain about... The rear cover also dropped off it and was lying in the gearbox mounting plate. I have a spare, but unfortunately it's missing an important component, so can't be used either: So: going to have to be either a replacement, or else... a 1200 cable which I have on the shelf seems to be about 6 - 8 inches longer. This means I might be able to fit the cable and have it gently looped round to the chassis rail without the requirement for an angle drive at all. That's more or less the way the non O/D cables are fitted. I just need to avoid any tight bends that may kink. Possible? According to the Revington TR site it's a solution, but then they also say that Triumphs do not require any washers, only BMC cars. A bit of experimenting coming up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 used a std non od cable on Rays Coupe when we fitted an OD box by hole saw through the floor fit a grommet and run the cable under the carpet to the dash it worked fine and you could not see the cable as Rays in the happy driving grounds i cant ask him now but i now John who bought the car i could get more clues from him if needed its not anything like the original route but it works fine if you strip the drive down you will find the short squre drive is welded into a pressed in shaft that you can remove from the gear but you wont find a replacement shaft but you could araldite an old cable in the shaft to refurb the fractured one and then decide was this collapse due to pre load and no washer ?? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 47 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: and then decide was this collapse due to pre load and no washer ?? Pete I had a washer fitted... so not the cause here; it also failed in less than 150 miles which points to something more than just wear. Could it collapse so quickly otherwise? The longer speedo cable option is also out, due to where it emerges from the gearbox, it has to bend to clear the floorpan / chassis either above or below and this will strain it too much for my liking. New angle drive required... I just don't want to try to refurbish the broken one then find out that it's going to go again, all too soon, because I never addressed the original cause. EDIT: have I just worked out the original cause of the damage? I fitted a washer. It was smaller than the diameter of the casing, but big enough to allow the driveshaft to pass through. When the angle drive was tilted for fitting the washer would have dropped down onto the driveshaft, and when the angle drive was tightened to the gearbox the washer would have been held against the shaft, with the shaft turning against it. Shaft couldn't turn, washer couldn't move hence the damage. The washer needs to be the diameter of the drive end, so that it cannot physically move inside the drive. Lesson learned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Colin I take it the OD internal drive gear is still working ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 seem to recall the washer is of 7/16" dia does that make a fit or rattling good fit ??? we need to know when advising to fit or not to fit that is the ......... Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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