Fuel pump for early Vitesse 2l Mk1

[TRevver]

I need to get a new fuel pump for my 2lMk1 Vitesse. It's an early one built at the end of 1966 (engine number HC1743E) with the olive and screw-in brass connection. It's the old AC glass pump style and I thought it worked (been serviced with new diaphragm etc) but ... no. Not providing any output, in fact, seems to be sucking in from the carburettor end??

Any ideas where to get a replacement one that fits? Seen plenty for '67 onwards engines but not sure about pre '67 and don't really want to have to change fuel lines if can be avoided (although I have done the hoses).

Cheers.

[Pete Lewis]

most AC  glass tops can use a repair kit   

some valves are corked in place they can be a job diy too far   some are held by screws so are easy 

theres too many reports on here that replacements offer far too high  pressure  and you end up with more problems 

pump kit   1600 Petrol Pump : Canley Classics  516542

Pete

 

[TRevver]

Thanks Pete, I've done the service using the kit, the only thing I couldn't change was the valves that are crimped in place.

[68vitesse]

Early 2L fuel pumps are the same as 1600, different arm, early 2L block has blanking plate where 1600 has block vent.

Regards

Paul.

[Pete Lewis]

ok  yes crimped/corked/coined  /staked     cheap to produce  swine to replace 

if you end up witha repro pump some swap the spring for the old one or you get 5psi and lots of flooding 

Pete

[NonMember]

12 minutes ago, TRevver said:

Thanks Pete, I've done the service using the kit, the only thing I couldn't change was the valves that are crimped in place.

I have successfully replaced them in the past (on an early Mk1 Vitesse pump as well as a later one) by very carefully removing the staked over bit with a dremel then re-staking the new valves on a different part of the rim.

I probably still have that early Mk1 pump somewhere - the car now has a later engine due to a cracked block in the original.

[johny]

Yes the valves will be the problem as in my experience they (both must seal well) fail far more often than the diaphragm which seems almost indestructible. Even the crimped type can be changed with a bit of care as the casing is alloy and easy to file/cut away and then, if required, recrimped using a centre punch. The hardest part is getting out the outlet valve as you cant get behind it to push it out so must be skewered and prised out with pointy pliers... 

You might as well have a go as youve got nothing to lose👍

[Pete Lewis]

2 minutes ago, johny said:

ou might as well have a go as youve got nothing to lose

or as my Dad used to imply   "mend it to destruction  "      hopefully not 

Pete   

[johny]

Its so satisfying when after 10 failed repairs one comes good🙃

[Wagger]

5 hours ago, TRevver said:

Thanks Pete, I've done the service using the kit, the only thing I couldn't change was the valves that are crimped in place.

I levered mine out, obviously destroying the old valves. Used a small socket and hammer to fit the new ones and 'Peened' them in with a small chisel shaped punch. Pump supplies 2lbs of pressure with the new valves.

[martyn wright]

Hi!  My Late (July 66) 1600/6 Vitesse (Only 1777 cars where made on this Spec - Jan 66-Sept 66) came with a Glass Domed AC Petrol Pump and some of these where carried over to the Mk1!  I believe??

[68vitesse]

Pumps on left later 2L, pump on right 1600 and early 2L as Wagger said valves easily changed and arms can be swopped between the two pumps. A lot of AC pumps had the same main body so bits are interchangeable between them.

Regards

Paul.

[TRevver]

Thanks. A lot of useful stuff there. I think I’m going to have to get a new pump as the car has been off the road for 3 years (long story) and I desperately want to get it running this summer and work away from home a lot. I’ll take the spring from the old pump and try to change the valves on the old pump later when time permits. Anyone recommend best place for 1600 / early 2L pump? Rimmers do one but looks like inlet and outlet are at 90 degrees instead of in line. (Part 206623 https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID005923
 

 

[johny]

Are you looking at the right pump from Rimmers as the one I can see with that part number seems to have the connections in the right place? Paddocks do the same item at a lower price.

Remember any replacement may have an output pressure thats high enough to cause problems but this can be reduced by using more packing (gaskets?) between the pump and the engine block... 

[NonMember]

41 minutes ago, johny said:

this can be reduced by using more packing

The added packing trick is less effective on the 1600 / early Mk1 pump because of the lever angle.

[johny]

well it should be to do with the distance of the lever pivot point from the cam. The further away the less movement angle the lever goes through so lessening the amount the spring is compressed which then applies less force to the diaphragm = less fuel pressure developed = more chance needle valves will seal👍

[68vitesse]

Reading your original post if sucking in from carburettor side and conections are at 180⁰ then could the top need rotating, inlet marked with an arrow. Have fitted pumps with connections at 180⁰ and 135⁰ to my Vitesse, just left the flexible from pipe from tank a little long.

 

Regards

Paul.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

On many of these Delco pumps the pump unit is the same, only the lever varies. No problem in buying a replacement online, some good bargains do appear, then just swap over the lever or any other parts you need.

 

[johny]

Paul, I think it means sucking from the outlet (marked AC in your photo) which is a sure sign the outlet non return valve isnt sealing so when the diaphragm is pulled down by the cam pushing the lever it sucks from both inlet and outlet☹️

[TRevver]

Thanks Paul, the pump was definitely right way around as it’s marked “in” on the inlet side.

ordering a new pump from paddocks and will tinker with the old one in due course.

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, johny said:

well it should be to do with the distance of the lever pivot point from the cam

No, it's not at simple as that. The early pump has a lever that is operated from below, so packing the pump doesn't affect the throw and only reduces the leverage by the ratio of the packing thickness to the lever length. The later pump is operated nearly sideways so you're packing against the throw directly. That throw is very much smaller - about a quarter inch - so the ratio is much higher.

[johny]

Definitely worth fixing up the old one as they do look cute and add to the appeal of our old cars to spectators (ditto dynamos, large skinny steering wheels and small gear knobs) if that interests you at all😍

[johny]

11 minutes ago, NonMember said:

No, it's not at simple as that. The early pump has a lever that is operated from below, so packing the pump doesn't affect the throw and only reduces the leverage by the ratio of the packing thickness to the lever length. The later pump is operated nearly sideways so you're packing against the throw directly. That throw is very much smaller - about a quarter inch - so the ratio is much higher.

 Whatever, will packers help or not?

[NonMember]

I suspect not.

[johny]

Well there you go TRevver - choice is yours so let us know how you get on....