Clutch help needed!

[gt6j]

Evening! Was driving earlier in a new to me gt6 and I heard a loud metalic ping outside(ish) of the car while driving. Can't confirm if ping was definitely the car. About half hour later and alot of no problem gear changes, the clutch pedal went very soft, followed by difficult to get into gear, then impossible to get into gear. Managed to get it home in 3rd mostly after bit of crunching. was thinking the clutch just went as was very high anyway, however, as it worked for a bit after the ping (which may not of been car) is there anything  else obvious I should be checking before going for clutch replacement? The spring on the pedal itself is still there as thought may of been that. The ping sounded like a tight spring pinging off and hitting something hollow but as said could of been outside the car somewhere. Grateful for any opinion here as new to triumphs! cheers. 

 

 

[sulzerman]

Best to check the clutch fluid level first.  If that is low or none there at all, its either the master or slave cylinder faulty/ leaking. 

Don't know what the ping could be, check the linkage on the slave cylinder.

Good luck!

[thescrapman]

Pin has pushed through the operating arm for the clutch?

[Josef]

I know the slave cylinder mounting on the gearbox can break, but not how common that is. Might explain the pinging? Or it could’ve been the end snapping off a diaphragm spring I guess?

Anyway, there’s not much to the clutch hydraulics, and you can see the clutch release arm movement without removing the gearbox (and maybe even straight from the engine bay?). So that’s what to check over first. 

[NonMember]

The obvious candidates for clutch-related ping noises would all cause immediate failure, surely? I'm with sulzerman - check your fluid. I've had that on my GT6 - a very small leak means it's fine at the start of the 12-car navigational rally but gives up completely about half way through.

[Colin Lindsay]

Possibly the pivot pin has dropped out, but the release lever has been held by the brass bushes until they lost their grip over multiple clutch releases and the arm eventually worked its' way out, hence the gradual failure?

[PeteH]

Another vote for checking the release lever pivot pin, the action would get worse as the pin worked it`s way out.

Pete

[johny]

Gt6 so different set up from Spit/Herald...

[Pete Lewis]

there is no pivot pin on the 6 cyl vit/GT6 cars  its an inside the hsg sperical post with wont fail 

the withdrawl forl lever can fracture at the spherical post  and that coud be noisy if it lets go under load 

fingers breaking off the diaphragm is a good candidate for flying bits of metal 

you wont see much of the throwout travel from the egine bay its  a bit too rearwards  its on the drivers side  ,,, try to look see 

yes check fluid levels is the esiest   any clutch drag will baulk you changing/selecting gears when on the move 

so this could be a simple fluid loss or a actuation   dilema 

pete 

 

 

[gt6j]

Feel a bit stupid for not checking the reservoir first, but it was dark and was out of steam from pushing it down the road 😄 Filled it up just now was at bottom, can see where it's leaked from (I think) very old resevoir cap and pipes. Pressure back in pedal now.. no springs found for the ping. Will try another day out today (any excuse to go out as love driving this thing) and see what happens! Cheers for all help, overwhelmed by support on here 👍 

[johny]

It normally either runs out of slave, into bell housing and out of the bottom to leave a puddle or out of master cylinder rod and down into driver footwell where it disappears into the carpets🤗

[Pete Lewis]

if you need to bleed the slave it is with double jointed hands and a wonky ring spanner you can just get on the slave bleed nipple from within the engine compartment 

its not easy but it can be done    you wont fit a bleed tube but a squirt of water disolves any fluid you manage to squirt out

Pete

 

[gt6j]

Had a look at reservoir after 5hr drive out today and fluid had dropped about 1cm. Will have a hunt for new bits to replace as lid was crystalled up and can see residue on bit of pipe. The slave cylinder looks crusty too.

Probably covered somewhere else on the forum (I will have a look) but had tiny bit of fuel coming out of bottom of carb cork seals and was cutting out and idling lumpy after running to temp.. no prob when moving just when stopping at idle and pulling away spluttery. made it home again. getting there! 

[chrishawley]

To take carbs :

I'm assuming your carbs are Stromberg 150CDSE and not CD150. 150CDSEs have a distinctive but useless yellow bit on the side purporting to be a tempaerature compensator (as per photo).

There are three  common ways for the underside to be wetted with petrol (the normal condition is dry as a bone):

1) Rubber O-rings on the plastic plug in the base of the float chamber have expired. Fuel drains out gradually. More likely to contribute to poor starting than to affect running. Easy DIY fix. Extract plug(s) replace o-ring, refit.

2) Carb is flooding with petrol swimming about in the throat of the carb which can be seen when air filter box is removed. Will spill out and run down the carb. Running will be poor due to uncontrolled, over-rich, mixture. Single most common reason is failure/obstructed closing of the needle valve (but there are other causes as well). Easy, inexpensive, fix not requiring too much know how.

3) Petrol leakage from the starting enrichment mechanism ('choke' but it's not really a choke) on the front carb. Requires careful inspection with engine running to see that it is localised in this way.  May or may not affect the running condition. Tricky to fix, not always succesful and some relevant spares unavailable.

Well, that's not every possible cause of fuel leakage but it's the common ones - either singly or in combination.

 

 

 

 

[gt6j]

Cheers Chris going to take a look at all of those suggestions tomorrow. They look the same as the carbs in your picture. I did undo and reattach the choke cable recently which has made start up alot worse so will have a look there too. Looks like 1 carb has alot more staining and wet than the other too. 

[Pete Lewis]

csome  other things to dream about 

strombergs do not have any cork seals , just proper gaskets or 0 rings 

float chamber gaskets can all look the same but evolution made changes and get it wrong make good leaks 

most kits come witha range of look alike but differeing gaskets just to confuse people .

lumpy running ... the first thing is to remove the temp compensators undo the lastic cover and close the small air bleed plunger by screwing the nut down  doesnt matter where  just get it closed 

you cannot set the mixtures when they are open at normal temperatures 

remove the main air piston and with a long hex key sdjust the small delrin washer on the head of the needle to be flush with the base of the air piston

if the diaphragm is wrinkled and wont fit back nicely  wash it in petrol

make sure the bolt on filters have open and coreesponding holes to match the carb face  its easy to have one block the float breather 

open TC will need a rich idle mix to run  and the smells to go with it 

Pete

 

[Colin Lindsay]

On 22/10/2022 at 10:29, Pete Lewis said:

there is no pivot pin on the 6 cyl vit/GT6 cars  its an inside the hsg sperical post with wont fail 

pete 

 

 

Oops! Never read that bit! Ignore the pivot pin idea then.

[gt6j]

Thanks Pete thats great info learning fast here! 

[Pete Lewis]

most of it is simplestuff  once you have some clues  

we're all here to help   just ask and wait for thread drift    its inevitable 

Pete

[gt6j]

Just an update on carb woes, on the top of the strombergs, one carb the piston in the top half does not move all the way up like the other side. It goes a bit then the full wat with alot force. I switched the damper from the other carb but same thing happening. Wonder if it's getting stuck 'up' and letting load of fuel in? Not sure what's to fix it will try cleaning it out again. 

[Pete Lewis]

the top covers are often said to be paired and thats just rubbish   on production the tops came out of a bin and got fitted  any sticking is down to damage or debris on the piston

slide or the bore in the top cover or its been hooliganed and something has bent the slide tube 

they should lift easy with a finger and drop witha nice clunk on the bridge .

you will have biased(sprung) needles so jet centreing does not apply like it would for a cd or cds earlier bottom ajuster carbs 

diaphragms have been known to be made from elephant condoms or recycled whelly boots   they must  be thin floppy and very gossamer like 

thick  ones stop the piston moving fully   a case of fake stuff on sale .

the slide can ve cleaned with metal polish or anything not too abrasive  wet,dry 1200 or finer 

but a sloppy fit wont affect its operation as much as a sticking one 

Pete

 

[chrishawley]

1 hour ago, gtjoe said:

one carb the piston in the top half does not move all the way up like the other side

This particular issue will not be related to fuel leak problems (at least not in any direct way) but needs to be tackled. So this prob for now and back to leaks later. And not forgetting clutch.

Removing the suction chamber cover doesn't involve any delicate operations so I'd suggested a procedure as follows. And can be done without removing carburettor from the vehicle.

• Remove damper and set aside

• Mark the cover such that it can be replaced the same way it came off

• Undo the four retaining screws one turn only. The cover should now be ever-so-slightly loose so give it a wiggle.

• Now try to raise the piston while, if necessary, wiggling the cover. If a position can be found that allows free upward movement and drop then that is a good sign. But in any case proceeed to.....

• Remove the four screws entirely. Lift off cover. Observe that return spring is present (and not mangled) and remove. Observe condition of rubber diaphram (intact, not flakey, soft and mobile). On the perimeter of the diaphragm is is locating pip which sits in a rebate in the body of the carb ('photo). Observe that this is seated correctly.

• Gently lift piston from body of carb and inspect. Check needle (biased needle, springy to the touch). Check upper part of pistion for burrs or damage.

• Clean up assidusouly but aim to keep diaphragm dry. Do not soak. Petrol or WD40 is ok for cleaning but not thinners.

• Now check that upper part of piston runs freely up and down in dash pot cover with spring in place. A little light oil is permissible. Initially may be a tadge 'sticky' but will free with movement but if any force at all is required that would imply a damaged unit that may or may not be remediable.

• Reassemble noting the crucial position of the pip in the rebate. But when tightening the four screws only very lightly nip first of all then repeat the 'wiggle' (as above) to find the best seating for the cover such that the piston moves freely. Tighten up screws incrementally repeatedly checking free movement of piston.

If that does not work there are still other possibilities and much might depend on what PO did or didn't do.

 

[gt6j]

On 20/07/2021 at 23:08, Adrian said:

Hi Pete

No idea why i can't post video any more probably some incompatability from apple to microsoft. So basically pressing the accelerator there is a very stumbly/stuttery response which is increasingly difficult to build revs as the engine gets hotter (fine initially when its cooler). The stumbling even causes the stearing column to shake. i'll have another go at a lower resolution video.

Thankyou for all help so far, really useful.

Update, cleaned the 'topside' of both carbs in situ, found dirt in the bit where the dashpot bit drops into in one carb. Cleaned it properly and reinstalled being careful with screws and they are rising and falling perfectly now both sides. Diaphragms are intact and soft, not too stiff. Seem spot on. I haven't stripped the underside of carbs out yet as need to get a seal kit (aware now of pitfalls of diff kits!) 

However while scrolling looking for more answers I found the post above which describes the issue I have exactly minus fuel seepage (which seemed to be less today but could be wrong) went for to temp run with carbs back on and same prob, really struggles to idle (cutout once) and when revving pulling away it just splutters up through the range from 0-20mph then seems better. Getting light popping from exhaust when slowing down to junctions too. All of this only when engine up to temp.

Could this be related to leaving the temp compensators screwed shut or should they be left shut forever more? (I had them shut on the run)

On clutch - Clutch fluid hasn't dropped since cleaning the lid of the reservoir and topping up, clutch action feels good, although il be changing the resvoir and pipe as looks not long for this world.

[Pete Lewis]

did you reset the needle to its basic setting   ie small washe level with bottom of piston 

it should run fine at that   apart from aftermarket filters may need a richer needle if they are free flowing .less intake vacuum 

poping  and misfire is making me  think more is dizzy condenser problems 

get one from distributor doctor  he is reliable    he mainly does lucas but has some delco

  have a read

 Delco condenser: 829111,829107,1861709,1866049,18655972, 1869704,1882239, Lucas Condenser 484249, 400308, 407044, 54411935 / DCB105, 54413006, 23D4 22D 23D DM2 25D DM6 DM4 lucas distributor, Lucas condenser number 423871, GDC101. Condensor 405833 for Ford 8 and Ford 10, Lucas condensers from Distributor Doctor

if fuel lines have been messed with fake /old fuel line is well known to shave off small slivers of hose and these cause chaos in the float needle valves areas by blocking the back of the valve 

Pete

[gt6j]

Cheers Pete, have got a rebuild kit on the way, will try this and then see if its any happier. Didn't touch needle setting but seem to remember it being flush with bottom of piston when put back in. Going to look into standard air box and dizzy if still playing up. Pipes look new as far as I can tell except old rigid pipe but will look for bits when it comes out!