johny Posted October 16, 2023 Report Share Posted October 16, 2023 Yes might be the next place to investigate further if the current adjustment doesnt improve things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 16, 2023 Report Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, nicrguy1966 said: Whether they're doing the right amount of advance at the right time is not possible for me to test at home. The Distributor Doctor is your best option for refurbishing your dizzy. He checks and calibrates the advance curve. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 16, 2023 Report Share Posted October 16, 2023 Yes although the advance figures at different revs are in the manual so with a strobe you can get a pretty good idea of how well the dizzy is working👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 A bit depressing that before I've even put the car back together everyone's discussing what to try next when this doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 Well it was always only possibility and it is good to have back up plans😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 10 hours ago, Iain T said: The Distributor Doctor is your best option for refurbishing your dizzy. He checks and calibrates the advance curve. Iain He only mentioned Lucas distributors on his website. Does he also do Delco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 As I say you can easily check it yourself in situ with the strobe using these figures (for later GT6): 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 40 minutes ago, nicrguy1966 said: He only mentioned Lucas distributors on his website. Does he also do Delco? Not sure best to phone but as Johny posted you can roughly check yourself up to say 3000rpm. After that the neighbours might start yelling😁 Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 30 minutes ago, johny said: As I say you can easily check it yourself in situ with the strobe using these figures (for later GT6): Wow, I'm at 20 BTDC at idle! At higher revs my car changes to over 40 BTDC. My car is crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, nicrguy1966 said: Wow, I'm at 20 BTDC at idle! Does it tick over OK at say 6-800 rpm and not pink under load at low revs, high gear and lotsa welly? Edited October 17, 2023 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Iain T said: Does it tick over OK at say 6-800 rpm? Yes, lovely and smooth. I can slow it down to about 500rpm without any issues. The problems occur at >3000rpm where it lacks power (probably due to the spark being stupidly advanced). With ignition set to 13 BTDC at idle (the Haynes Manual recommended setting, but very different from the numbers provided above), it lacks power at all revs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 read the test data in the WSM carefully most Dizzy testing figures is done DECELERATING so you measure the degrees reducing revs not as you expect raising the revs this catches a lot out just be sure of the test data and HOW not all are like this but you do need to know Ha!!! just another learning curve to combat the peaceful snoozing Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, nicrguy1966 said: He only mentioned Lucas distributors on his website. Does he also do Delco? There is H&H ignition systems that do Delco, though when I got mine done it was cheaper to go via the club shop than direct 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 Dont forget those workshop manual figures are added to the static setting as the weights fly out under centrifugal force so that would give total 35* max... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, johny said: Dont forget those workshop manual figures are added to the static setting as the weights fly out under centrifugal force so that would give total 35* max... That makes a lot more sense now. I did wonder about 0 at 800rpm, it didn't sound like any setting I'd ever seen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, nicrguy1966 said: Yes, lovely and smooth. I can slow it down to about 500rpm without any issues. The problems occur at >3000rpm where it lacks power (probably due to the spark being stupidly advanced). OK a curve ball which may be a load of rubbish. In the search of 500bhp and 1000ft/lbs of torque out of my tuned Vitesse engine I tried timing it using the manifold vacuum technique. I was surprised that at tick over it did indeed run fine at around 20 degrees advance but did pink a slightly under load. Then I read or someone on the forum posted that with K&N less restricted air filters the vacuum at tick over is effected so I returned to 13 degrees. However at that setting the engine was nowhere near as good as it should be. In fact on a rolling road power dropped like a stone over 4000rpm. The answer was leaky carbs/gasket joint and more importantly getting the correct needle and mixture! I've posted in fuel section my woes but now it's 95% correct the difference is huge absolutely transformed the performance and timing back to 13 degrees. Iain Edited October 17, 2023 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, Iain T said: OK a curve ball which may be a load of rubbish. In the search of 500bhp and 1000ft/lbs of torque out of my tuned Vitesse engine I tried timing it using the manifold vacuum technique. I was surprised that at tick over it did indeed run fine at around 20 degrees advance but did pink a slightly under load. Then I read or someone on the forum posted that with K&N less restricted air filters the vacuum at tick over is effected so I returned to 13 degrees. However at that setting the engine was nowhere near as good as it should be. In fact on a rolling road power dropped like a stone over 4000rpm. The answer was leaky carbs/gasket joint and more importantly getting the correct needle and mixture! I've posted in fuel section my woes but now it's 95% correct the difference is huge absolutely transformed the performance and timing back to 13 degrees. Iain It's amazing how an odd ignition timing can lead in so many different directions! Cam timing, warn distributor and now fuel/air mixture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, nicrguy1966 said: It's amazing how an odd ignition timing can lead in so many different directions! Cam timing, warn distributor and now fuel/air mixture! It is natural to suspect cam timing and I'm sure now you've corrected the minor error it will be better. I can only relate my experience which given the head etc required a lot more fuel and timing wasn't the problem. If you lack power after getting it back together try turning the carb adjuster half a turn and ignition at 13 degrees. I think you have a Mk2 which if your engine is standard has 6AC needles. Edited October 17, 2023 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, Iain T said: In the search of 500bhp and 1000ft/lbs of torque Jeepers! I only ever aim for 100bhp and count myself lucky if I get over 85. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stratton Jimmer said: Jeepers! I only ever aim for 100bhp and count myself lucky if I get over 85. I'll be happy if my car starts after I've adjusted the cam timing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 Just now, nicrguy1966 said: I'll be happy if my car starts after I've adjusted the cam timing! Have faith🙏 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Stratton Jimmer said: Jeepers! I only ever aim for 100bhp and count myself lucky if I get over 85. I may have exaggerated slightly... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 35 minutes ago, nicrguy1966 said: That makes a lot more sense now. I did wonder about 0 at 800rpm, it didn't sound like any setting I'd ever seen before. yes and quite a bit of tolerance on the figures as well. Anyway when is the big start up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 38 minutes ago, Iain T said: It is natural to suspect cam timing and I'm sure now you've corrected the minor error it will be better. I can only relate my experience which given the head etc required a lot more fuel and timing wasn't the problem. If you lack power after getting it back together try turning the carb adjuster half a turn and ignition at 13 degrees. I think you have a Mk2 which if your engine is standard has 6AC needles. It's a late Mk3, and I don't think there is any manual adjustment on the carbs. Changing the needles is the only way to change anything (and fixing any possible leaks around the inlet manifold). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicrguy1966 Posted October 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 24 minutes ago, johny said: yes and quite a bit of tolerance on the figures as well. Anyway when is the big start up? After lunch if all goes well. I'm thinking of starting it up without a radiator or fan, just for a few seconds. If it doesn't start, I'll try a few times with different ignition timings, and if it still doesn't start, I'll have to consider reversing everything I've done over the last few days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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