JonLow Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Trying to trace my old 1500 Spitfire, GLK 684T, or if not will wish to buy a full reconditioned one in time for my retirement next year. The wife used to love the car, but now will not be able to manage the heavy steering, (compared to cars these days). I have seen the odd reference to a power steering modification/fitment on our small Triumphs, but have never turned up any real information. Anyone know if this modification is possible, or have any details on this please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 There are many electric columns on places loke ebay very cheap ex pug /corsa etc no idea if they can be cobbled to a triumph or if any ecu or speed signal is required also knee room as the motor can be bulky under the dash zone food for thought pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Jon, There are several small moderns that use electric power steering. Peugeot 308, Nissan Leaf for example. Fits on the steering column, can have speed related assistance. A lot easier to fit than hydraulic: I know of a Mk2 Escort that uses this. John PS Pete aheadf of me! Great minds and all that. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 And there are "magic boxes" to get the electric steering columns to work. There is a chappie building a mk3 spitfire who was fitting one. Scottie55 on the CT forum. http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1229790537/s-335/highlight-power+steering/#num335 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 A guy who comes to our club meetings has electric power steering on his spitfire. It looks a neat installation but I don't know how difficult it was to do. He may be along later to tell us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomL Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Hi, I'd definitely go for a modern electric system. I agree with others; I wouldn't try to adapt a hydraulic system from a 2000/2500. I spoke to the people at EZ Power Steering UK at Goodwood Revival (http://www.ezpowersteering.nl). They specialise in making and installing electric power-steering for classics. I gathered that they have done a few TR5's and 6's and they have done at least one GT6. They are not cheap but if you weren't into doing you own mods, then you'd have the peace-of-mind that it'd been fitted by a specialist. For me, I'm not sure I'd be entirely confident in a system that I'd cobbled together out of bits off an old Vauxhall Corsa... but it's entirely up to you. Please let us know what you do. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Hi VERY, Interestink. Think it could be done on a Herald 12/60?. AND the $64,000. question does it need an Electronic box of tricks to function properly?. I currently run an old Fiat Punto with Electric PAS, and that needs to be "set up" electronically after a Steering Change. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Yes, they do need a box, but they are easily available for some columns, and I presume make life simple. No reason why it couldn't be done on any Triumph, Heralds have more space than a spitfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Electric Power Steering (EPS) in a Spit? What, you mean like this ... As you can see, it's possible. I used a Corsa-C EPS module. I had Picton Sportscars splice the top of the original steering column on to the EPS. NB: this is a safety-critical process and needs to be done professionally unless you know *exactly* what you're doing! You end up with something like this ... I wish I had investigated the MGF EPS as I think the motor might be in a better position to tuck in behind the Spit dash. Yes, you need an electronic "box of tricks" to wake it up. On the simplest level, it needs one stream of pulses to simulate a running engine (they don't want you to flatten the battery - it draws up to 50-Amps!) and another related to speed to set the assistance. All of the EPS modules I've seen are made by the same Japanese company - the only difference is the position of the motor (to fit behind the dash) and, presumably, the firmware so as to give the right assistance characteristics. One thing, as well as adapting the Spitfire's steering bracket to mount it, you need to add a BIG torque arm bolted to e.g. the A-pilar, otherwise it will rip itself off the first time you use it! (Damn near destroyed the kitchen scales when I was characterising the assistance - that's a 1-horsepower electric motor!!!) If you don't want to do it from scratch yourself, or with a professional, there are companies like EZ Power Steering who have done all this work for you. They will be using an off the shelf EPS like the Corsa or MG ones; there's plenty of choice out there - most new cars seem to have them! My Spit is an engine-back 2.5 with the original "quick" rack and the EPS certainly makes the steering weight acceptable at lower speeds, say, below 30mph. I think it also gives a slight "vagueness" or "detachment" to the steering. It's only slight and it's difficult to describe - I don't have a before 'n after comparison as it went in at the same time as the extra cylinders. Hope this helps, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomL Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hi Richard, I'm really impressed. Thanks for posting the photos. It's a great mod and one I have been seriously considering for the Vitesse. I had a price from EZ a short while ago but as it was approaching 3-grand, I had rather shelved the idea. I think that you're absolutely right to point out that there's a safety issue with such a mod and one you'd need to feel comfortable about doing yourself. Anyway, yours looks like a nice job and I bet it puts a smile on your face when you're manoeuvring into a tight parking space (whilst people like me are sweating!). Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 I can now reveal that Richard IS the mystery guy who comes to East Berks meetings. I didn't want to say so without permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Caswell Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 You could think about using a Vitesse steering rack that is geared slightly lower so you need to turn the steering wheel a bit further for the same action at the wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishmosh Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 i have a mountney 13 inch iirc on my 1200 and a standard Vitesse wheel on my Bond( the Les Lestons being sorted ) I put the 1200 one on in the eighties. Love the look but seriously considering a Vitesse wheel as its so much more relaxing. Power steering would be a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonLow Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Some great help and advice so far! I think electronic power steering must have passed me by, as that thought had not even crossed my mind. Seems this may be a topic that might increasingly be of interest to people, judging by some of the comments so far. Star man Richard! Maybe you might want to think about fronting up such useful mod for those that are interested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macandy Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I've had a look and tried the EZ Power steering system. Advantages: Bolt in fit, manufacturer support, no significant modifications required, and as it comes in a box, the insurance company will be happy. Like all electric systems, its a bit 'vague', but thats the nature of the beast. If you are getting retrofitted by nature of a disability, it should be zero rated for VAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Have a look at rally design they do a retrofit kit that will probably fit without to much hassle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 Hi I keep coming back to this periodically. I`m actively considering the purchase of a Corsa Unit (Circa £50 S-H inc; ECU) and trying it out whilst I have a "bare" Shell and room to work on it. Could be a (side) project if I run out of Welding Gas as seems probable soon. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 On 29/01/2016 at 20:23, PeteH said: I currently run an old Fiat Punto with Electric PAS, and that needs to be "set up" electronically after a Steering Change. Pete I almost bought one a few years back, I needed a cheap runabout in a hurry - the power steering wasn't working and the seller told me it was just low fluid and he'd throw in a bottle with the sale... Not sure about Corsas, tho... not easy to steer - round here lots of them went through hedges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 On 29/01/2016 at 20:23, PeteH said: Hi VERY, Interestink. Think it could be done on a Herald 12/60?. AND the $64,000. question does it need an Electronic box of tricks to function properly?. I currently run an old Fiat Punto with Electric PAS, and that needs to be "set up" electronically after a Steering Change. Pete Further to this "debate". "Lockdown" means more trawling of `tinternet than normal, and Interestingly I came across this little gem?. On the face of it, it would appear that it supplies the necessary Data stream needed for proper setup?. The supplier appears to be based in Portugal!, which could be problematical as things stand?. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Corsa-B-C-Kit-Electric-power-steering-controller-box-With-ECU-plug-EPAS/142463712424?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 I think the key to a successful installation will be variable assistance. On the move the steering is always fine and easy, it is only at low speed and parking it becomes an issue. Of course, if a faster ratio rack was available that would become more interesting. EDIT l having a "bit of time" on my hands, had a nose in the dark world of the WWW and came up with this company http://simonebirchall.co.uk/index.html and they sell all sorts of electronic power steering stuff, including a speed sensitive controller http://simonebirchall.co.uk/controllers/speed-sensitive.html They also sell a variable controller, where you manually adjust assistance. Fully fitted prices are good too, they don't list spitfires, but TR6 was £850, speed sensitive controller about £200 extra. (price list a couple of years out of date) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 I wonder if there is an issue with fitting power steering to a Herald etc. Are the components of the steering system strong enough to cope with power steering? Most modern cars allow you to turn the wheel when the car is not moving, that must put a lot of force on the steering components. That's ok if its been designed like that but if you do it on a system not design for those loads, will stuff break? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 Power steering cant damage the steering components any more than you can after your shredded wheat. But you have a point, it is damn hard to turn the wheel when stationary so avoided (as it should be) On power steering setups the important bit is to properly brace the the power steering motor, a tremendous amount of torque. On a herald it would probably need taking down to the chassis to the front outrigger? Or a frame from a post to bulkhead? And of course, sound car structure! But if used sensibly, it shouldn't be an issue. Most of us know about not turning the wheel when stationary, and with our cars rarely getting used as everyday cars the extra stresses should be minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 Pete, the "data streams" for the Corsa EPS are in fact dumb signals - there's no intelligence other than the frequency of the signals. One can be anything in a wide range as it just indicates the engine's running. The other is road speed and sets the amount of assistance. Clive, I was going to add speed assistance to mine (Spit 6 c/w "quick" Spit rack) but I found it works well on minimum assist for parking & driving and then laziness took over! Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, mpbarrett said: I wonder if there is an issue with fitting power steering to a Herald etc. Are the components of the steering system strong enough to cope with power steering? My first non-Triumph was a VW Passat (with the 5 cylinder engine). It had power steering. When I needed some work done on the front suspension (accident damage), I discovered it had been bodged with the wrong bits - VW used beefier components on cars with PAS but mine had the non-PAS parts. Seemed to work fine and didn't seem to wear them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 Hi PAS. IMV, is a BIT like Servo brakes. The effort required to overcome the "Sticktion" on the wheels/tyres remains the same, BUT the PAS makes the effort on behalf of the operator that much less. The structure copes either way?. The Weakness, as we all should know with the Small Chassis cars, IS the Trunions. Anyone old enough to have driven Lorries, before PAS will tell you, you had to have an upper body like "Arnie" to cope!. (and steering wheels the size of dustbin lids!), Yet even HMQ, drove 3 tonner`s during the last altercation with the Germans. BTW. Variable assistance is available too on some cars, My Punto has what is label`d as the "City" button, use it and the steering becomes suddenly much lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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