Vitesse / Spitfire gCo2/km emmisions

[Mark B]

Hi all

Rumours are that Greenwich in SE London, Labour led council  are going to extend their residents permit parking Zones to the area where I live. No street parking issues here whatsoever. A 'nice little earner' and to force people to get rid of their cars in my opinion.

If this actually happens, I will need to show evidence of the gCo2/km emmisions for my Vitesse, gt6 and mk3 Spitfire. In reality a couple will probably have to go.

The vehicle emmissions on the v5c's are blank. From memory the MOT, just shows Co2 and HC levels.

Any idea where I might get this info? Without any suitable proof the default charge is £300 which is their maximum charge rate (at the moment).

Thanks

 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

It is sad, but it does seem to be the current trend: price the motorist off the road, reduce congestion and encourage use of public transport. We're going back to olden times when only the rich could afford to drive and they can pollute all they want.

Sadly the Gov 'Vehicle Certification Agency' only goes back to 2001, and will soon be updated to 2019. No help there, and that's the official Gov record!

 

[Iain T]

What a pain! I hope the ruling party Aspire at Tower Hamlets don't follow suit. Of course it's all Khan's fault! Is there no CO2 exemption for registered classic cars?

Iain

[rlubikey]

Mark, my brother lives in Eltham and he had his (almost) classic motorbike (late 80's Honda) tested & certified by some agency after catalysts were added to the exhausts. Now it's fully ULEZ compliant. Is this what you're talking about? Because I assume if you can do that for a bike (the testing and certification) you can do it for a car.

Cheers, Richard

[Mark B]

Thanks for all the replies. Being registered Historic, my Triumphs are exempt from ULEZ, and doesn't have any bearing on residents permit parking as far as iam aware. They specifically require proof of your vehicles gCo2/km. I did call the council and spoke to the relevant department who said to send them in all the vehicles details and they would take a look, but added that if no information was available then it would be charged at the maximum rate.

https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/info/200263/parking_and_permits/2469/check_resident_parking_permit_prices_for_your_vehicle

I've not seen anything official regarding the widening of residents parking permits to my area, but has been on my radar, as all the surrouding areas require permits to park. 

This warning was on a flier put through the door during the recent local elections by one of the opposition parties warning of what could be in the pipeline. 

It may not happen, but after the ULEZ expansion and the general war on motorists, I want to be prepared for the worst case.

Edited June 18 by Mark B

[Stratton Jimmer]

There is a national exemption for historic vehicles. See this URL for details: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-a-clean-air-zone#exemptions

Exemptions

There are some national and local exemptions from the charge.

You’re automatically entitled to a national exemption, and do not have to pay a charge, if you have:

• a vehicle that’s ultra low emission
• a disabled passenger tax class vehicle
• a disabled tax class vehicle
• a military vehicle
• a historic vehicle
• a vehicle retrofitted with technology accredited by the Clean Vehicle Retrofit Accreditation Scheme (CVRAS)
• certain types of agricultural vehicles

Edited June 19 by Stratton Jimmer
Additional information added.

[Mark B]

Hi, iam already within the expanded Ultra low emmissions zone, which my Triumphs are exempt from, because of their historic status. Greenwich council have introduced permit parking charges based on emmissions in 2023. This is independent of the ULEZ. I asked, and there is no exemptions from these permit parking charges based on the age of the vehicle. I think there should be, especially if i can't prove the gCo2/km, 

https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/news/2023/emission-based-parking-charges

[Mjit]

19 hours ago, Iain T said:

What a pain! I hope the ruling party Aspire at Tower Hamlets don't follow suit. Of course it's all Khan's fault! Is there no CO2 exemption for registered classic cars?

Iain

Please explain how Khan is responsible for decission made by individual borough councils that he has no control over and on issues that do not fall under the remit of the Mayor of London...?

[Colin Lindsay]

38 minutes ago, Mark B said:

Hi, iam already within the expanded Ultra low emmissions zone, which my Triumphs are exempt from, because of their historic status. Greenwich council have introduced permit parking charges based on emmissions in 2023. This is independent of the ULEZ. I asked, and there is no exemptions from these permit parking charges based on the age of the vehicle. I think there should be, especially if i can't prove the gCo2/km, 

https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/news/2023/emission-based-parking-charges

There's an interesting point raised there. Any vehicle parked in a space takes up the same amount of room regardless of emissions or age. I can understand reductions for smaller vehicles or increased tariff for huge ones, but emissions would seem to be irrelevant for parking.

We have a roughly similar problem locally with blue-badge holders; the main street was getting congested with parking every day due to a very successful cafe, plus band displays in the small garden on Sundays. Nothing could get through and HGVs were a nightmare. They brought in parking restrictions to ease congestion, but made blue badge holders exempt. Now the street is still impassable on Sundays or more popular weekdays, and they're all blue-badged cars so entitled to be there, and traffic still cannot get through. It's amazing how many huge 4x4s and camper vans need blue badges these days (and need front-row parking so that no-one else can see past them...) but exemption didn't improve the parking problem one bit.

[Peter Truman]

I thought the same what relevance does age and emissions have on a parking place.

Greenies never miss a chance even if the topic doesn’t affect their soap box!

[Iain T]

2 hours ago, Mjit said:

Please explain how Khan is responsible for decission made by individual borough councils that he has no control over and on issues that do not fall under the remit of the Mayor of London...?

In my opinion Khan started the war on motorists especially by expanding the ULEZ area. This in turn seems to have emboldened some councils to wage their own local war on cars. Mark's parking permit charge is a good example as it's CO2  not space related. We had our chance to change ULEZ and LTNs in London but blew it. I can't wait until EVs are charged road tax! 

Iain

[Iain T]

2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

We have a roughly similar problem locally with blue-badge holders;

Over the last couple of years there's been a huge increase in fake and stolen blue badges. We've noticed the increase here.

[jdaley]

How can a law be retrospective?

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, Iain T said:

I can't wait until EVs are charged road tax! 

Iain

The way they're going, they're more likely to gain historic status due to their impending rarity on the roads... 

[Iain T]

Why the government didn't road tax EVs until April 2025 is unfathomable. All that lost revenue to bolster government pensions!

Sorry no politics I'll stand in the corner of the page......

 

[rlubikey]

20 hours ago, Mark B said:

my Triumphs are exempt from ULEZ, and doesn't have any bearing on residents permit parking as far as iam aware. They specifically require proof of your vehicles gCo2/km.

My point was, if you can have a vehicle tested for its CO2/km to satisfy ULEZ, then I presume the certification may also satisfy your parking permit people. I don't recall if you get an officially recognised certificate or it's an amendment to your V5. It was just an idea, knowing that vehicles can actually be modified to lower their emissions.

Cheers, Richard

[johny]

Vehicle pollution measures like ULEZ arent about CO2 which is a natural gas that we breath all the time. Its a by product of efficiently burning carbon which unless concentrated isnt harmful to the body and which you cant stop with catalytic convertors.

Then its difficult to quantify a vehicles emissions of CO2 as theres lot of variables and of course its closely related to fuel consumption so I doubt its ever going to be possible to get it measured anywhere easily...  

[Mark B]

3 hours ago, rlubikey said:

My point was, if you can have a vehicle tested for its CO2/km to satisfy ULEZ, then I presume the certification may also satisfy your parking permit people. I don't recall if you get an officially recognised certificate or it's an amendment to your V5. It was just an idea, knowing that vehicles can actually be modified to lower their emissions.

Cheers, Richard

Thanks Richard, understood. Might be an option. Like I said earlier, this may not happen in my area. Trying to do a bit more digging to find out more.

Mark

[Graham C]

I am confused by this measuring the amount of Co2 produces by g/Km. How do you measure this? Drive a car slowly less Km  travelled and fuel burnt, so low amount of Co2 produced. Similarly if driven fast more fuel burnt a lot of Co2 produced. If you do not change gear and keep revs high then more fuel burnt.

So how do they test and compare?Graham

As historic car do not need MOTs, free road tax then how would the parking permit work if you did not drive the car and so had zero Co2 produced?

Sorry mind running away, bored.

Graham

[johny]

Believe its like official fuel consumption figures and theres a standard test which covers different driving conditions. This is going to be very complicated and expensive to do on individual vehicles so if the manufacturer hasnt supplied a figure for your car Im afraid any charges based on CO2 will be at the default (maximum) level...