What information is needed by the DVLA and Insurance companies?

[Eric Smith]

Hi guys

As many of you might know, I have been restoring a 1955 Standard 8 for a good many years, but the end is in sight, so I now need to start thinking about paperwork because I guess the DVLA and insurance companies will want to know if the car is different from the one which came from Standard in 1955.

I have never completed a restoration before, so before I open up the proverbial can of worms - what do I have to do to prepare or gather information to give to the DVLA and Potential Insurance companies.

So far I have

1. Changed the cars external colour

2. Changed the the engine cubic capacity by fitting a replacement engine, it was an 803cc SC unit, it’s now it’s 1147cc SC unit married to the cars original gear box and soon to be replaced the innards of the differential.

3. We fitted a new improved and recommended Webber single choke down draft carburettor

4. Fitted new front seats and got rid of the rear seats because I don’t want them

5. Fitted a new speedo because the old one was smashed

6. Fitted some new and additional gauges including a rev counter

7. Fitted a new loom and changed the car to Negative Earth

8. Fitted new wheels and tyres but still 13” for the benefit of the speedo.

The steering box needs a revamp so I need to get it replaced or refurbished, the brakes are all new, new master and brake cylinders, new clutch master cylinder and changed most of the fuel and hydraulic pipe lines.

So I admit the car is partially modified but not massively and has been up graded a little so guys your advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

Eric

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Engine size definitely, and colour probably. The rest is just replacement parts, you could argue through wear and tear, and don't affect the car's basic structural integrity or performance in any legal sense.

[johny]

This from gov.uk so I dont think youve got much of a problem...

[dougbgt6]

Eric,

For the DVLA, engine capacity and colour. If the engine is from another Triumph you may not loose your point, it has to be an engine Triumph might have considered fitting themselves. But from a Ford, no chance! The rest you've done is just repairs and aesthetic additions.

Doug

[mark powell]

I don't think that a Ford engine would trigger a response, Engine capacity and engine number, I doubt a Ford engine number would even register with them!  Not an issue with this application anyway... 

[Works Spitfires]

As others have said its just a colour change, and a capacity, and engine number change. Don't confuse the DVLA with anything else than absolutely necessary.

It has been my experience that since lock down (actually started during lock down) DVLA service has  been absolutely dire. I have had multiple issues with them (we have a 'few' vehicles!).

It had got to the point with a few dealings with them that I have lodged complaints, and in one case paid for a freedom of information application.

In the past five or so years I have actually only spoken to one useful, knowledgeable lady who sorted my problem in a couple of minutes, where before the paper trail had lasted months with no resolution until this call.

She admitted that most of the senior experienced people were now working from home, leaving the the apprentices to take decisions, to wit the usual answer is no, now what's the question!

Needless to say I have never been able to talk to this lady again in any further dealings with them.

You get the feeling that they are a demoralised bunch of public servants doing the bare minimum to see their time out, and get their pension!

Dear me, that sounded like a rant didn't it!

 

[Colin Lindsay]

I've found the other extreme recently, but then I've moved online with V5s and changes of ownership etc. Does that count as doing it myself? In any case my new V5 arrived within days and my SORN application went through immediately, as opposed to last time when the V5 took eight weeks to arrive and caused all sorts of bother with tax renewal. 

This 'working from home' idea is a total gimmick, I know three people on it and they've not had so much free time in years - not just the time saved commuting but able to sit in coffee shops with a laptop open in front of them and gossip while typing replies to queries.

[Eric Smith]

To everyone who has supplied information - many, many thankyous , being part of this forum has been like finding gold

[Eric Smith]

When I had a career, we used an expression we called “finger trouble” when or if you pressed the wrong button or a button you should not touch at all - guys I had finger trouble when by accident I hit Submit Reply.

There were a few questions I wanted to ask -

Once I complete the restoration I feel the car needs to be taken for a post restoration MOT, do they do it at normal MOT stations?

As long as the old axle is still the same, does replacing the differential class as a change, all I am changing is ratios not the axle?

As far as I can see I am ok on points so I feel I don’t need to do anything or much for the DVLA - does the same apply for the insurance companies?

Cheers guys and thanks again for your help.

Eric

[Colin Lindsay]

15 hours ago, Eric Smith said:

Once I complete the restoration I feel the car needs to be taken for a post restoration MOT, do they do it at normal MOT stati

As long as the old axle is still the same, does replacing the differential class as a change, all I am changing is ratios not the axle?

As far as I can see I am ok on points so I feel I don’t need to do anything or much for the DVLA - does the same apply for the insurance companies?

Cheers guys and thanks again for your help.

Eric

Only if you have seriously changed the configuration of the car - I think this is the Vehicle Type Approval test? (Used to be something different hence I'm unsure) - that may seriously affect performance. Changing a 938 engine to an 1147 needs notified to keep the V5 correct, but doesn't adversely affect performance and is classed as a period upgrade. Swapping Solex for Stromberg or SU, electronic ignition, tubular manifold, halogen lights, alternator upgrade, different ratio of diff etc, they're all swaps that are minor modernisation or upgrades that don't really require notification to anyone.

If however you fit an engine or gearbox that requires different mounting points from factory fitment, or is a modern engine that is radically different from the original, or a completely different rear axle that require serious modification to the chassis or structure then this probably does require notification and a check to make sure it's safe and has been done correctly.

There is often a grey area / wavy boundary as to what the actual cut-off point can be - uprated brake pads are one thing, an entire rear disc brake conversion is a different kettle of fish. I've no idea how anyone puts a Mazda engine, Ford Type 9 gearbox, Subaru rear axle and Capri brakes on a Triumph then drives away as normal without notifying anyone, not even Insurance, but then each to his own. By all means have the car MOT'd for peace of mind, but minor work is commonplace especially as original parts wear out and replacements dry up and requires no official permission. 

As for Insurance Companies... well, you wake the sleeping dragon at your peril. WE know how modifications are done, and what they entail; if it's not in their manual, the Insurance people will charge accordingly. Never cover anything up that may affect a payout in the event of an accident, but conversely: be careful what you volunteer that doesn't need to be highlighted. 

 

[mpbarrett]

following this with interest as I have a 1500 Triumph engine in my 13/60 herald. the insurance company knows, and its on the certificate but I realised that I havent updated the DVLA documents.
Has anyone done this recently as they seem to need some documents that I dont have! I cant remember where I go the block from and dont think I can talk to BL anymore..
 

Mike
 

Change of engine number or cylinder capacity (cc)

You need to provide one of the following:

• a receipt for the replacement engine that includes the engine number and cylinder capacity
• written evidence from the manufacturer
• an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
• written confirmation on headed paper from a garage (if the change took place before you bought the vehicle)

[Colin Lindsay]

"Inspection report" might just be a letter on TSSC-headed paper from your local AO? All that is required is some kind of official confirmation that it's a period upgrade and perfectly suitable for the car. That would also cover things like uprated brakes to cope with the extra power too?

[Pete Lewis]

i remember from examining cars for dvla that the Club HQ can supply you with a simple pack of forms to get completed by an AO

ive done a few over the years 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

Here comes a 'sort of' thread drift but anyone watch Bangers and Cash last night (probably an oft-repeated episode anyway.) This 'thing', a Batmobile-like vehicle is based on a BMW Z4. I can't see how it's even street-legal as you can't see the front indicators, for example, but it still carries the BMW registration. All those panels are metal and it weighs tons. As it's not on a 'Q' plate it must have a certain quantity of the original vehicle, Derek Mathewson states it drives like a 'normal Z4' but with seriously reduced visibility and extra weight I wonder what it's registered as now and how it's Insured?

 

[Chris A]

The front doesn't look very pedestrian friendly in the event of an accident.

[thescrapman]

On 28/06/2024 at 13:02, mpbarrett said:

following this with interest as I have a 1500 Triumph engine in my 13/60 herald. the insurance company knows, and its on the certificate but I realised that I havent updated the DVLA documents.
Has anyone done this recently as they seem to need some documents that I dont have! I cant remember where I go the block from and dont think I can talk to BL anymore..
 

Mike
 

Change of engine number or cylinder capacity (cc)

You need to provide one of the following:

• a receipt for the replacement engine that includes the engine number and cylinder capacity
• written evidence from the manufacturer
• an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
• written confirmation on headed paper from a garage (if the change took place before you bought the vehicle)

You do not need any of the above for an engine change in a classic, there is an acknowledgement that owners of older cars tend to have spares in the shed, or from a fellow enthusiast, and I really do suggest you do not even contemplate offering anything to them. It was to try to avoid fraud and revenue loss in more modern cars. Much pain may well result.

[thescrapman]

On 26/06/2024 at 19:25, Eric Smith said:

Hi guys

As many of you might know, I have been restoring a 1955 Standard 8 for a good many years, but the end is in sight, so I now need to start thinking about paperwork because I guess the DVLA and insurance companies will want to know if the car is different from the one which came from Standard in 1955.

I have never completed a restoration before, so before I open up the proverbial can of worms - what do I have to do to prepare or gather information to give to the DVLA and Potential Insurance companies.

So far I have

1. Changed the cars external colour

2. Changed the the engine cubic capacity by fitting a replacement engine, it was an 803cc SC unit, it’s now it’s 1147cc SC unit married to the cars original gear box and soon to be replaced the innards of the differential.

3. We fitted a new improved and recommended Webber single choke down draft carburettor

4. Fitted new front seats and got rid of the rear seats because I don’t want them

5. Fitted a new speedo because the old one was smashed

6. Fitted some new and additional gauges including a rev counter

7. Fitted a new loom and changed the car to Negative Earth

8. Fitted new wheels and tyres but still 13” for the benefit of the speedo.

The steering box needs a revamp so I need to get it replaced or refurbished, the brakes are all new, new master and brake cylinders, new clutch master cylinder and changed most of the fuel and hydraulic pipe lines.

So I admit the car is partially modified but not massively and has been up graded a little so guys your advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

Eric

 

Eric

 

if you have a recent V5, just send it off for change of colour, once back wait a few months, send off for new engine number and capacity.

offer NO additional info, just do the 2 simple things you need to achieve. They are very easily confused, as they think everyone is defrauding them of revenue, or up to no good.

[Eric Smith]

Firstly to the people who read but don’t comment:

Boys and girls, I did not expect so much thought and comment would be generated by my initial questions, but if you are in the same boat as me you will have a lot of reference material to fall back on - I hope all of the input from the Forum members will be as helpful to you as it will be to me!

To everyone who spent time typing messages:

Many thanks for all of your input when you added thoughts, information and knowledge, you all have given me a lot to think about and I can only say thanks to all of you. 

You lot are the best.

Eric
 

 

 

[mpbarrett]

16 hours ago, thescrapman said:

You do not need any of the above for an engine change in a classic, there is an acknowledgement that owners of older cars tend to have spares in the shed, or from a fellow enthusiast, and I really do suggest you do not even contemplate offering anything to them. It was to try to avoid fraud and revenue loss in more modern cars. Much pain may well result.

cheers

will change the details on the DVLA document and see what happens.

mike