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A little problem


Carba1984

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Hello, I will try to explain myself as best as possible, I have installed an aluminum rocker cover on the spitfire, what happens to me is that the plug inside is soaked with oil and overflows along the edge a few hours after the engine is turned off, how could I solve this? I have an oil hose installed and I think it may have something to do with splashing the inside. I am attaching photographs of the plug and the hose that I have installed
What I think is that the cap is of poor quality, I've tried to put other gasketIMG_0933.thumb.png.ee7392d6f88668e1902c7a6ba29f3eaa.png but I'm not able to solve it, maybe it squeezes the cap a little

IMG_0931.jpeg

IMG_0934.jpeg

IMG_0926.png

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Carba,

First of all, TAKE OFF THE EXTERNAL OIL SUPPLY HOSE!!!

It is unnecessary, and because it is low resistance, risks stealing oil glow from where it really is needed, the crank mains and big ends.

As you have found , all it does do is flood the rocker cover with oil!

The dealers who sell this "modification" should be shot!

John

 

Edited by JohnD
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I agree completey with John, TAKE IT OFF!  You are robbing the main bearings off lubricant. What would you like to protect most? What is going to be the most expensive to repair, the main bearings or the rocker shaft? The existing drip and drizzle of oil is more than sufficient for the rocker equipment. Don't feel bad, I once contemplated this modification until told DON'T DO IT! by someone who knew better, probably John. :)

As to the overflow, you may still get a little even without the oil modification. What gasket did you use, the picture looks like cork? A neoprene gaket may work better.

Doug

Edited by dougbgt6
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The gasket I have used is the rubber that comes under the cap.The cork that appears in the photo is that of the rocker cover itself, I don't have any problem there, it has sealed well. I put the hose on because it was recommended to me by a friend who had a rally spitfire.

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Carba,

Some - some! - racers use this mod.   But they ALWAYS fit a restrictor in the line, a narrow orifice that limts the amount of oil that the line can take, to protect the crank.

It's really risky without that, and for road use, pointless!

John

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Out of interest does anyone know what started this modification originally? Its been available for years so at some point there must have been a problem with rocker gear wear or seizure in Triumphs or possibly another make and that started the story. It might even have been when engines were brand new and the tolerances so tight that the lubrication wasnt enough? 

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No thinking about it was probably as John says, some racers had problems so increased oil supply with a pipe and with that, as is quite often the case, it became sexy to put it on road cars....

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10 minutes ago, johny said:

Out of interest does anyone know what started this modification originally? Its been available for years so at some point there must have been a problem with rocker gear wear or seizure in Triumphs  

I had a rocker shaft seize on our 76 2500TC around 76, but it was due to the locating screw at the end of the back of the shaft coming loose (out) so all the oil was pumped straight out at the rear of the shaft/engine hence the seizure. I immediately replaced the complete rocker shaft and rockers from my Vitesse & brought new for it?? The screw didn't fall into the sump but lodged in a push rod hole so was easily fixed.

I made up an extra oiler as per the maligned aftermarket flexi pipe but using 1/8in pressure gauge copper pipe, ie very restrictive etal Jag XK/XJ style, BUT I never fitted it, it's in my bits n pieces box & will stay there!!!  Warning's from this and US forums put me straight.

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There's a reason they've made it but I'm not going to reinstall it, I've been able to solve the oil problem due to the rocker cover by uninstalling the hose.It may be beneficial to install it but I won't do it again. I would like to install is the dual smiths of water temperature and oil pressure, that is good, but it has an abusive price from Spain

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When I rebuilt my Vit engine 30+ yrs ago I fitted a new rocker shaft and rockers ,as the original parts had done 133k and were badly worn. A couple of thousand miles later, doing a tappet check, I found two rockers partially seized on the shaft. Upon inspecting, I found bad wear to the shaft and rockers. I'd bought the shaft at a car show, unboxed and no BL labelling. I think it was either a reject or pattern part made out of chocolate and not hardened properly.

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Its not that the modification is a bad thing but as said our engines must have a good supply of oil to the crank bearings so by sending more to the rockers theres a risk the system pressure will reduce and the bearings wont have enough.

Ha, some people on here call an oil pressure gauge a 'worry' gauge so all I do is test my oil pressure with a small gauge that I screw into the oil pressure switch hole once a year and the rest of the time I relax🙂

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The company who rebuilt my Vitesse engine reported very little oil getting to the rockers so I fitted the external feed with an adjustable restrictor. I adjust to a slow drip at tick over which is only 1/4 of a turn. Fully open the oil floods out. I also chose to use the bushed rocker arms which you have to get a machine shop to match the shaft diameter. I inspected the shaft after 1000 miles and it shows no sign of wear or pickup.

Iain

Edited by Iain T
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The origin of the 'external oil supply '?     I've wondered if it was inspired by, BUT NOT BY, Kas Kastner.     For those who don't know, Kastner was the Competitions Director for Triumph in the US, and did more for Triumph tuning and racing than the Home Team ever did.   Dammit, he wrote the books, the Official "Competition Preparation Manuals" for the GT6 and 2000.   He was a skilful and sceptical race engineer, and he found by measurement that  at speed, the oil supply to the forward main bearings on the 2L engine was deficient.

The solution he devised was an external oil supply!   See below.

External oil lines Kastner 2.jpg

I know poor quality pic! Very dotty, but lean back and look again!

 

He blocked the main oil gallery, and took a line out from where that received a supply from the oil filter, to a chamber - the tube in the middle of the pic - from which each main bearing got an individual supply.   This cured the problem.      Then someone saw how Triumph had made the cylinder head, and the oil gallery from the rear camshaft bearing to the rockershaft.    Two vertical drillings, linked by one horizontally from the rear left corner.    They could have sealed the outer end of that permanently, but chose to use a blanking screw with a copper washer.    So easy then  to take that out, add a banjo and link it directly to the main oil gallery by the oil pressure gauge port.  But no thought to the robbing effect, far worse than the problem Kastner found!

Kastner died at a great age a couple of years ago, but his story is told and his books sold at Home: R. W. "Kas" Kastner (kaskastner.com)     A great man, little known this side of t'Pond, who I corresponded with and am sad never to have met.

John

PS johnny, the external head oil supply IS a bad idea, for the reasons explained.   Triumph's design has a recess in the rear camshaft journal that acts as a pump, sending a pulse of oil up to the rocker shaft every revolution.     For production cars this is perfectly adequate.     As I said, some racers, with high lift cams, stiffer valve springs or roller rockers have elected to install the external supply, but ALWAYS as in Iain's case with a restrictor.     The b*gg*rs who sell the plain kits should be shot, not for being opportunist shysters, which they are, but for being incompetent engineers!  J.

Edited by JohnD
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I have only driven 5 kms with the oil hose installed, I hope I haven't damaged anything. Tomorrow I start a fire test for the spitfire, 3 stages in the north of Spain, approximately 600 kms, Holidays 😎

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Good write up John thanks. I said 'not a bad idea' which doesnt mean its a good idea or even necessary but if installed and IF your oil system can still maintain a good pressure under all conditions (remembering that the relief valve dumps excess anyway) then I cant see a problem...  

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this all the reason this oil feed is nick named the sporn of satan

and flooding the valve stems will just give you a smokey exhaust 

dont mess about just delete it 

the original design has only lasted 50 years    Not bad really 

Pete

Edited by Pete Lewis
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I suppose back in the day it was just possible that people had problems with rockers because of lack of oil due to low oil pressure and installed a feed pipe only to then have even bigger problems😂

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50 minutes ago, johny said:

I take it your engine is revved a lot higher than usual Steve and thats why you need the extra oil?

Not really but apparently the oil supply as standard is not enough for roller rockers. (According the engine builder who sold it to me).

S

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That is rather old fashioned.     The "Roller" refers to the contact between the rocker tip and the valve stem, confused by the fact that such rockers are often provided with needle 'roller' bearings on the rocker shaft.

They used to be open bearings, so that unlike the plain metal-on-metal bearing of OE rockers, any oil provided to the bearing quickly fell out.   Modern roller rockers have needle bearings that are sealed to the rocker shaft, and an excessive oil supply is not required.   IMHO a far better and more engineered solution.

John

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