clutch fault or something else?

[iana]

Took the Vitesse to an event today, we ended up queuing for ages to get in and the car was getting hot and bothered, temperature gauge was about 3/4 so put heater on full to assist with losing the heat build up. Then as I went to move it was difficult to select a gear and it stalled, it was like the clutch didn’t work but when starting it again it was fine to select a gear but not to change up. It was fine on the return trip perhaps a bit notchy for the last mile or so. I’ve noticed the gears are fine if being used but if kept in a single gear for a period the first change is notchy but then ok after. Looking for ideas of where to start looking. I was wondering if the clutch hydraulics needed a check up / new fluid. Any advice appreciated. There was no strange smells coming from the engine bay. The only gearbox issue I have noticed is after about 40 miles of constant use it stops working until it cools

[johny]

Hi, dont think youre on your own with this problem! My Vitesse gear selection and change gets more difficult with high temperatures and to minimise it Ive optimised engine cooling. So although not to everyones taste Ive got a new aluminum radiator with decent electric fan and start it manually as soon as Im likely to be in slow moving traffic. 

Ive always thought the issue comes from the gearbox oil changing with temperature as well as component tolerances so that everything adds up to the sticking and notchiness youve mentioned....

[Pete Lewis]

i would start by replacing the hyd fluid ,  when bleeding make sure the slave is push in as far as it will go 

this reduces volume and aids bleeding

if you have a red plastic supply pipe replace with metal 

any gear change baulking is going to be clutch related not the gearbox .

[iana]

1 hour ago, johny said:

Hi, dont think youre on your own with this problem! My Vitesse gear selection and change gets more difficult with high temperatures and to minimise it Ive optimised engine cooling. So although not to everyones taste Ive got a new aluminum radiator with decent electric fan and start it manually as soon as Im likely to be in slow moving traffic. 

Ive always thought the issue comes from the gearbox oil changing with temperature as well as component tolerances so that everything adds up to the sticking and notchiness youve mentioned....

Thanks, I did wonder about an ancillary electric fan (used to have one on my GT6 which was a godsend in traffic) what fan did you fit. I will keep the original but add a secondary fan.

 

15 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

i would start by replacing the hyd fluid ,  when bleeding make sure the slave is push in as far as it will go 

this reduces volume and aids bleeding

if you have a red plastic supply pipe replace with metal 

any gear change baulking is going to be clutch related not the gearbox .

Thanks Pete, I did wonder if I’d got a small amount of air or similar in the hydraulic fluid - it looks very old / dirty. It’s well in excess of 5 years old. I’m also going to change the coolant as that looks past it’s best, can you remind me what you recommend for flushing the system with and do you close the heater or clean that as well.

[johny]

11 hours ago, iana said:

Thanks, I did wonder about an ancillary electric fan (used to have one on my GT6 which was a godsend in traffic) what fan did you fit. I will keep the original but add a secondary fan.

Well I believe you can get by with a standard cooling set up in good condition but I like to keep my Vitesse as cool as possible, not only for gearbox operation but also carburation, so have an aftermarket aluminium radiator with a directly mounted Spal VA10-AP50_C-61A (305mm dia. suction blade). Although the crank fan is removed its still pretty tight but apart from cooling the radiator it also gives a good flow of air through the entire engine bay👍

[Puglet1]

I had a similar problem with my Vitesse whereby gear selection became slightly more difficult / notchy after being driven for a few miles.

 I noticed quite a bit of free play on the clutch pedal.

 I removed the rubber gaiter from the clutch master cylinder and could see that the clutch master cylinder to clutch pedal clevis pin was badly worn.

The hole in the clutch pedal which the pin sits in had also elongated.

 I bought a new clevis pin, removed the clutch pedal assembly, welded the elongated part of the hole and re-drilled it.

The gear change is now light to operate and selection of gears whether hot or cold is now perfect.

[johny]

oh and another possibility is the gear lever linkage. Any wear in this can make gear changes less smooth at any time but for some reason temperature seems to make it worse...

[Pete Lewis]

all i have ever used if a coolant flush is required is simple cheap washing soda.

you need the heater open or give the matrix a forced flush direct with a hose pipe etc.

DOT4  absorbs water like a sponge   change it every two years is recomended

you can get very cheap moisture content indicators on the bay ,handy to have in the cupbard.

i often use one at pub meets  to  frighten owners .......... some upto 25% water 

an annual suck out the reservoir with the turkey baster and a refill can extend service periods as its the cap vent that breathes and allows moisture in the reservoir as it vents 

the moisture content starts here ,it doesnt get into the system by use, only from the reservoir 

one common age related failure is  do make sure all the pedal pivots are oiled  and free , seized will cause lots of grief if pedals cant return fully .

there must be some free play between push rod and master cyls.to allow recuperation of fluids

 

Pete

 

 

[Unkel Kunkel]

As Pete suggests, the first action would  be to change the hydraulic fluid.

From your description, it    ‘ looks very old/dirty.It’s well in excess of five years old’.

Clutch fluid will degrade  like brake fluid does.

I don’t know if the temperatures encountered in clutch hydraulics could get sufficiently high to  result in the well - known  issues  that can be encountered with brake hydraulics  when degraded fluid gets gets too hot, - but  as the fluid needs needs changing and bleeding anyway , that would seem a reasonable  first step to take.

It might be all that is required.

 

Edited August 18 by Unkel Kunkel

[iana]

Pete do you mean something like this to test the fluid? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145764647177?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=h_pnoOQ3Qhu&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=d1CH2YVeSOa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Pete Lewis]

mines a bit more than those but they will do a good job

but if you stick to the 2yr rule and change the stuff you dont need them 

old fluid can have  terrible levels of water content normally found when things get hot and  the moisture 

starts to vaporize and then things go wrong 

 

Pete

 

[iana]

Is there a way of fitting an auxiliary fan on a Vitesse? There is very little room by the radiator 

[johny]

It is very tight and the minimum thickness fan youre going to find is >2". People have tried on here with varying degrees of success but they always go for the biggest diameter fan. This of course is logical but I wonder if a smaller unit fitted to one side away from the crank pulley and water pump would go in easier and hopefully still be enough to cool....