Poor brakes

[SpitfireGeorge]

Hi Guys,

Road testing my Spitfire mk3 today found the brakes very poor, almost hand to stand up to apply enough pressure to slow down. The entire braking system is brand new so should be alot better. No air in the system either. Std brake pads.

Everybody on here seems to recommend Mintex 1144 pads but they appear to be over £80 so a little expensive also the club shop is not advertising them at present. What about EBC Greenstuff pads, about half the price, anybody got an opinion?

Also what about master cylinders, is there one in the triumph range that gives more pressure at the brakes and is a straight swop?

For the last 30 years driven cars with a servo but I don't want to fit one as the bulkhead has other accessories in the way and I don't want to move them.

As always your opinions are most welcome.

Cheers Brett

[dannyb]

I have tried standard replacement pads from the usual top suppliers and greenstuff. Greenstuff was the worst. I thought that bad brakes was part of driving an old car, until I tried Mintex 1144. Totally transformed my brakes, yes they are dear but I could never go back the the cheaper pads. 

Danny

[JohnD]

SG,

Quote, from your original post"For the last 30 years driven cars with a servo"   

You are just not used to applying sufficient pressure without servo assistance.  No pad will cure that but experience will.  Get in some driving time before you buy different pads.

John

[Wagger]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

SG,

Quote, from your original post"For the last 30 years driven cars with a servo"   

You are just not used to applying sufficient pressure without servo assistance.  No pad will cure that but experience will.  Get in some driving time before you buy different pads.

John

I agree, and do not forget that new pads and discs take time to 'Bed in' and will improve greatly over the first 50 or so miles.

[Anglefire]

I took mine out for a spin yesterday - had to roll it out off the drive so I could jump start it as the battery was nearly flat - pressed the "brake" peddle and it went to the floor  - but the hand brake works so was fine - then realised that I had hit the clutch......... That's modern auto's (May case electric) for you confusing the old (Me!)

[johny]

10 hours ago, SpitfireGeorge said:

Also what about master cylinders, is there one in the triumph range that gives more pressure at the brakes and is a straight swop?

There are options on master cylinders sizes but its always a trade off, less effort = more pedal travel and vice versa...

[Gully]

I'd suggest you bed in the pads / shoes before making any changes. My GT6 brakes are fine with no servo assistance - certainly far far better than those on my modern when the vacuum pump failed! 😄 Joking aside, I can happily lock up the wheels with a good jab on the pedal.

Gully

[dougbgt6]

Brett,

11/44s are a dramatic improvement, not just "Oh, I think that's a bit better?" more "JEEZ! WOW!" Well worth the money.

Mintex have updated/improved/changed 11/44s and they're a different number now, whether they're as good I don't know. I do know John has a set and will doubtless update us as to their efficacy. Am I bovvered? No! I bought a set of 11/44s from Canley Classics last month for the spares drawer. Hurry while stocks last!

As to servos, my GT6 came with one as standard, so they are not to be sneered at on classics. My current servo is a Lockheed type, MUCH better than the original Girling.

Doug

Edited August 27 by dougbgt6

[SpitfireGeorge]

Thanks guys for your advice.

Cheers Brett

[JohnD]

Mintex don't make 1144s anymore, though suppliers may have stock.

The replacement is coded "MRM 1801"

John

[dannyb]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

Mintex don't make 1144s anymore, though suppliers may have stock.

The replacement is coded "MRM 1801"

John

I wonder what the difference  is and are they as good.

Danny

[JohnD]

See:  https://mintex.com/compounds/?lang=en-gbr

[Mjit]

19 hours ago, SpitfireGeorge said:

Everybody on here seems to recommend Mintex 1144 pads but they appear to be over £80 so a little expensive also the club shop is not advertising them at present. What about EBC Greenstuff pads, about half the price, anybody got an opinion?

Yes, half the price - but (at best) half as good.

In my experience I think Green Stuff are worse than the standard pads!

Quote

For the last 30 years driven cars with a servo but I don't want to fit one as the bulkhead has other accessories in the way and I don't want to move them.

This is your problem.

I have the exact opposite issue, driving Triumphs 90% of the time...and trying to eject my passengers through the windscreen the first time I touch the brakes if i jump in a modern   In modern cars you barely touch the brake pedal and the servo gives you a huge amount of brake pressure.  In a classic do the same and the pads are only lightly caressing the disks.

A modern, ABS equiped car can have a lot of servo assitance because press too hard and the ABS will save you.  If they had given classics the same braking performance, well there would have been a lot more holes in hedges!

[Pete Lewis]

we tried green stuff in the Vit6 when we first got her  but  its easy stuff to clean off the wheels but any idea of stopping is a distant wish 

absolutley  blasted hopless braking

try them at your will   .....   just avoid roundabouts and hedges and ditches 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

20 hours ago, SpitfireGeorge said:

Hi Guys,

Road testing my Spitfire mk3 today found the brakes very poor, almost hand to stand up to apply enough pressure to slow down.

Try drum brakes after driving a modern... YIKES!

I tried EBC Greenstuff once - BIN - but never yet tried the Mintex. Is that part number for type 14?

[Steve P]

I went for the "upgrade" modern master cylinder on my Herald, made it much worse,more leg effort required for decent braking.

I was rebuilding the front suspension so I put a Vitesse master cylinder and 4 pot calipers on it, vastly better.

S

[SpitfireGeorge]

I will try using the std ones and see if they bed in and improve. Hopefully I will live to report back. At the moment when I touch the brake pedal the car responds with "Hello, what do you want?" Has no idea I want to stop.

Cheers Brett

 

[johny]

Can I suggest something like this? Cheaper than the new pads🤣

[Pete Lewis]

there are a few things that will upset the braking  start with front hub end float 

and rear shoes held open by the HB cable and you cant adjust them

grooves in the rear back plate stops cyl slide.

wrong diameter master cylinder 

old brake fluid.

and so on  

Pete

[SpitfireGeorge]

My previous post was a little tongue in cheek although the brakes are poor.

The whole braking system is brand new. When I jack each corner the wheels revolve freely and when I apply the brake they lock and cannot be turned by hand. The handbrake works well and the drums hardly catch when I turn them.

How can I tell if I have the wrong master cylinder?

Cheers Brett

[johny]

Your MC should be 5/8" = 0.625" bore and this is usually marked on the outside of its body....

[Pete Lewis]

yes many  after market sales of some quite cheap land rover series supposed and called upgrades  are

3/4"   so up goes the pedal loads and down goes the applied pressures .but you saved £40 !!!!!

 

Pete

[johny]

Im very pleased with mine Pete but thats with type 16 calipers and cycling legs👍

[Pete Lewis]

no leg  pictures  then ??

Pete

[JohnD]

Sg, 

Brake bedding isn't usually needed, but no harm in going through the procedure.  See:  https://www.autozone.com/diy/brakes/bedding-brakes?srsltid=AfmBOooudhpowdU7StSgfaG-tzEC5xwPJ1ZXCTayAc2D-kD2RCWAHPPb

But "brake system brand new"?    Brake disc are supplied with an antirust coating, which should be removed before fitting.   The best solvent is - surprise! - brake cleaner!

Leave the antirust on and because it's oily, it may not improve your stopping.    So clean the discs, on the car, take out the pads and clean them, and go out to bed them in.    Do it on a lonely road!

Good luck,

John