Iain T Posted August 30 Report Share Posted August 30 Sorting out my front corners I had to change the hub bearings on both sides. The PO had fitted the felt seal the wrong way round and the bearing had comprehensively chewed the felt into a nice paste to the detriment of the bearings. I decided to fit a bearing spacer which locks the inner casings. This is not as standard Triumph but many marques use a spacer. I fitted the bearings and trial fitted the hub without the seal and set it up to give 0 to 2 thou clearance. I did both sides and took the car 100 yards down the road. Horrible! So I stripped one side and discovered the counter bore inner end of the spacer was hard against the stub axle outer bearing machined shoulder and preventing it from touching and locking the inner bearing. I, fortunately at a friend's with a full machine shop in his garage, had to countersink the inside a good 1.5mm so that both bearings could be locked and then shimmed. The seal was then re installed. What a Pfaff! So if you have an original forged stub axle and fitted a bearing spacer please check it isn't hard up against the stub axle inner machined shoulder of the outer bearing. It may just have been a peculiarity of my car but worth checking. The seller, a very nice guy, said I'm the first person to report this issue or is it just that I'm the first to notice? I've driven 40 miles and will recheck both sides this weekend. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 30 Report Share Posted August 30 Wow thats worrying! However let us know your findings if any on brake pedal feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted August 30 Author Report Share Posted August 30 (edited) I and a friend with the garage double checked both sides before I drove the 30 miles home. I know both bearings are now locked. The giveaway was the witness mark of the inside of the spacer on the stub axle. I still have this itch to strip both down and recheck 🫣. The brake pedal feels fine and there is no or infinitesimal movement at the tyre, much less than before but then the bearings were shot. As to brakes I press the pedal and the message appears 'buffering'.... I have Mintex pads but may have contaminated them so I'll clean them with brake cleaner and re bed. I also managed to laser the rear wheels which had equally too much toe in, I've set to parallel. At the end of the day I was knackered! I'll report back once I've checked. Iain Edited August 30 by Iain T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyb Posted August 30 Report Share Posted August 30 I have had the bearing spacers fitted on my spit for about 10 years. They were from Shacktune. Each side clearances were different by quite a bit so more shim washers were used on one side than the other. I have just replaced my virticle uprights for trunnionless and renewed one stub axle. So had to go through the whole setup again. On the new stub axle I had to reduce the shims by about 9 thou. So I don't think the tolerances of stub axles are the same. It takes ages to get the setup right but worth it in the end. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted August 30 Author Report Share Posted August 30 My spacers were also from Shacktune. It just goes to show the differences in the machining of the stub axles. The replacement axles are all CNC machined but to what dimensions and tolerance? The same goes for original axles from XY&Z suppliers. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 sounds like the dangers of Must Haves ???? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted August 31 Author Report Share Posted August 31 I think they are a good must have. It seems it's Triumph that are the odd man out for not fitting bearing spacers as standard. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 in the day a castle nut and a clue for the fitter was all that was needed it has only lasted 50 years Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 we know Triumph were notorious penny pinchers though Pete so not everything they did was the best just the cheapest..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted August 31 Author Report Share Posted August 31 Bean counters sometimes rule, look what they did to pre to post 1980s Mercedes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted August 31 Author Report Share Posted August 31 (edited) Looking at a sectional drawing through the hub there must be a rubber seal around that fits where the dreaded vintage era felt is. I believe the saloons have a rubber seal? Any idea of dimensions? https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GHS132P Iain Edited August 31 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 Yes the Stag certainly has a longer boss on the vertical link which allows a lip seal to run radially on it. This of course pushes the hub further out and as our suspension design started off with drums it was probably difficult/expensive to accomodate this change when going to discs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted August 31 Author Report Share Posted August 31 I took both hubs apart and I'm not happy with the spacers so I refitted as per wsm. Also on one side the new felt and steel carrier has decided to hug the VL and spin in the hub.....it should be the other way round! What a load of c**p! So at some time I'll get two new idiotic felt seals and cut the thickness in half and possibly bond it in the hub. Also due to the inner bearing rotating against the VL that face looks a bit chewed 🤬. IMHO a very bad design. I will countersink the spacer another 0.5mm to ensure it's not fouling on the stub axle and sort the thinner seals before I have another go. Not at all impressed! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puglet1 Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 Our classics can be soooo frustrating at times. Worth it in the end though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted August 31 Author Report Share Posted August 31 3 minutes ago, Puglet1 said: Our classics can be soooo frustrating at times. Worth it in the end though I need a rum 🥃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted September 2 Author Report Share Posted September 2 (edited) More hub playing this afternoon. First off I used Granville bearing lock to fix the rotating felt carrier into the hub. I didn't fancy bits of carrier being ground off and being eaten by the inner bearing. I fitted the spacer and used all the shims bar one 3 thou and one 5 thou. The wheel rotates freely in as far as the over thick felt is still restricting and no top/bottom movement. I'll do the other side tomorrow but I may have to order more shims. On this side the felt has parted company with the carrier but at least the carrier is solid in the hub. If I was starting from scratch I would have bought Canleys hub and stub upgrade which uses larger bearings with integral seals. Or in other words correctly engineered! Iain Edited September 2 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyb Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 4 hours ago, Iain T said: I'll do the other side tomorrow but I may have to order more shims. Let us know where you order them from. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted September 2 Author Report Share Posted September 2 (edited) 17 hours ago, dannyb said: Let us know where you order them from Shacktune sell them. I've text him tonight and I can buy more. However as he has them specially made you have to have bought his spacer. Iain Edited September 3 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted September 3 Author Report Share Posted September 3 . I tried the nearside today and the total 8 thou shims locked the hub so I'm getting more shims. However I think I've solved the mystery of why I need more shims. Take a look at the VL face that mates with the inner bearing, it's scored and looks ground down. I think over the last near 60 years the Triumph design which allows the inner bearing case to spin and being harder than the VL has worn down the face of the VL. Hence I need more spacers and it also accounts for the inside of the spacer hitting the outer stub axle bearing face as the VL worn face is allowing the hub to fit say 0.5/1.0mm more inboard. This has been bugging me but I'm sure this is the root cause. I'll say it again Triumph's is not a best practice design! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 think its time to replace the stub axle pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted September 3 Author Report Share Posted September 3 There's actually no ridge on the stub from the bearing. As it rotates there will always be a witness from the bearing on the stub. The black line you see is just the end of the machining. I might change them in the future but it's really the VL that's worn. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 Pete why’s the annulus on the VL so dirty on the sides and running face at the backing plate face the felt seal should be running there keeping it clean and shiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted September 3 Author Report Share Posted September 3 14 minutes ago, Peter Truman said: why’s the annulus on the VL so dirty on the sides and running face at the backing plate face the felt seal should be running there keeping it clean and shiny Peter, when I opened Pandora's box the felt seal, although nothing left of it, was facing towards the bearing hence for the 7 years of my ownership and probably a long time before that the felt hasn't been polishing the VL. Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjit Posted September 4 Report Share Posted September 4 Think I'd be tempted to replace those stub axles - and lets face it they were probably designed to do what, 5 or 10 years service and have actually given 50+ so more than "done their duty". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted September 4 Author Report Share Posted September 4 54 minutes ago, Mjit said: Think I'd be tempted to replace those stub axles Yes I should really but I just know they will be a pain to get out. A job for the winter. Or better still trunnionless and new stubs axles! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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