Seat belts

[Paul Amey]

Could anyone tell me please if convertible seat belts are the same or different to saloon seat belts? Paddocks list 109023 as saloon herald/ vitesse.

[Paul Amey]

I've spoken to Paddocks who say they only advertise them as saloon fitment due to feedback from customers having problems with convertibles.

[DanMi]

As you have a vitesse mk1 it would probably not have been fitted with seatbelts from the factory, just the floor mount points. So any seatbelt will be aftermarket/dealer fit. I recommend www.quickfitsbs.com they will be able to sell period style or modern belts.

[Colin Lindsay]

They're different, at least in the early cars if we're talking Herald / Vitesse. They were all static, no inertia reel versions. All of our early cars had the centre fitting on top of the centre tunnel screwed with two setscrews into a reinforced plate underneath and used a spoon-shaped mount for each side, one of which fitted into the other and the screws secured both - see photo below. In later cars (probably from the Mk2 chassis in Heralds) this changed to the side-tunnel fitting screwed directly into the actual chassis. Early cars were also screwed into the floor at the lower B-post onto a loop with a small reinforcing plate behind, not the screw-in eyebolt that screws into the side of the tub floor of later cars - just visible in the lower corners of this tub shot beside the drain hole.

  

The outer (B-post) fittings in this first photo are saloon, with the two screws into a reinforcing plate behind. The Estate has just one single large bolt in the same area to allow the shoulder mount to pivot. The convertible used a two-point mounting down the rear of the B-post which fitted into corresponding holes on both vertical post and horizontal wing top and so pulled against both - see below photo.

  

Later Herald convertibles used a fixing point on the rear wheelarches which requires a longer belt. I've a pending order with Quickfit as I'm still trying to make them understand that this is the configuration I need for my convertible, not the 'y-plate' they seem to keep recommending and which is for the saloon, but this two-point bracket on the right, above in their gallery photo beside the saloon y-plate. I'm sure they've supplied me the proper fitting before, but things broke down in translation and I'm still waiting on a reply to my recent e-mail. 

[DanMi]

Those are all later fitments, probably Kangol, 

[Jon J 1250]

3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

n later cars (probably from the Mk2 chassis in Heralds) this changed to the side-tunnel fitting screwed directly into the actual chassis.

I have a mid 1965 built car, three years after the launch of the Mk2 chassis and this still has the tunnel and floor mounting points for the seatbelts, in fact it only has a two point belt on the passenger side. I would guess 1966 or 67 for the later style loops that mount through the floor into the chassis and sides of the rear floor.. someone here will know I expect.

When the car goes back together in the spring after a repaint, I'll be putting in some Stanpart branded Britax 3-point static belts for this earlier style arrangement. Most Stanpart belts are for the later fixings as Colin describes, so had a bit of luck finding those.

JJ

[martyn wright]

These are the Sanpart set that came with the last of the Vitesse 1600/6 in July 1966, before Vitesse mk1 2ltr came out in September 66!

[Colin Lindsay]

In many cases, certainly the earlier stages, belts were added by the Dealership at point of sale, or even years after sale. It's hard to date or confirm a decisive style or fitting method bar what the factory added, such as the brackets on the chassis main rails.My 1963 tub has the floor hoops and the centre tunnel mounting; the belts using those mountings were all marked Britax. My 1961 saloon on the MK1 chassis has the B-post mountings as shown below, yet the 1200 saloon from 1963 has a single 'swivel' like the estate and again those belts are believed Britax as the catches are stamped 'Lyfelok'.

 

Those are to the floor 'hoops'. The 1967 estate has the screw-in eyes on both chassis and floor sides and the belts are marked Stanpart.

One other interesting feature that I've seen in so many tubs - I have at least three with these same two holes just behind the seat, all in exactly the same spot with no variation at all, and all blanked off with rubber grommets, yet they're not where the floor-mounted belt hoops are screwed in place.

[Colin Lindsay]

17 minutes ago, martyn wright said:

These are the Sanpart set that came with the last of the Vitesse 1600/6 in July 1966, before Vitesse mk1 2ltr came out in September 66!

That's actually a Britax set from a 1962 convertible, but I take it you mean similar?

[Jon J 1250]

17 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I've seen in so many tubs - I have at least three with these same two holes just behind the seat, all in exactly the same spot with no variation at all, and all blanked off with rubber grommets, yet they're not where the floor-mounted belt hoops are screwed in place.

Mine has these on the passenger side with the rubber plugs in, like I said, the passenger side only has two point belts (not Britax) so the rubber plugs are still there, but the drivers side has Britax three point belts and the same holes on the drivers site have the floor anchor mounted through them with the usual big dome headed chrome crosshead screws into a threaded plate under the floor.

 

[martyn wright]

Hi Colin!  Yes the pic above was the set that where. On my car when I got it in 1998!  I also have the  holes just behind the runners?

[martyn wright]

Oh!  Well look at that!  It's Raining heavily outside!! Again!

[DanMi]

Up until the late 60s possibly even early 70s (certainly up until MK4 for the spitfires) the cars left the factory with only the mount holes, maybe the eyes, in 1968 seat belts then had to be retro fitted to all cars post 65(when all cars had to have floor points). Hence you will see many different styles depending on the particular belts fitted either by the owner, the supplying dealer or an independent garage. Stanpart did supply belts but in reality they were just Kangol or Britax Excelsior with a Stanpart badge stuck on. So really it is just what fits. Personally I would replace them as 60 year old webbing will likely have weakened. 

[martyn wright]

Hi!  I did have the webbing taken off and a new dark navy blue webbing fitted by a seatbelt specialist  and they look really nice as the car is Navy(056) with black interior (011).

[Jon J 1250]

9 minutes ago, DanMi said:

Up until the late 60s possibly even early 70s (certainly up until MK4 for the spitfires) the cars left the factory with only the mount holes, maybe the eyes, in 1968 seat belts then had to be retro fitted to all cars post 65(when all cars had to have floor points). Hence you will see many different styles depending on the particular belts fitted either by the owner, the supplying dealer or an independent garage. Stanpart did supply belts but in reality they were just Kangol or Britax Excelsior with a Stanpart badge stuck on. So really it is just what fits. Personally I would replace them as 60 year old webbing will likely have weakened. 

Thanks for info Dan, I guess 2 point belts were acceptable at that time, hence why the original owner of my car opted for those on the passenger side!

[DanMi]

no seatbelts at all was the norm prior to 1968. In 1968 it became law to have 3 point belts fitted to any car 1965 or newer. Anything older was and I believe still is up to the owner

[Colin Lindsay]

54 minutes ago, martyn wright said:

Oh!  Well look at that!  It's Raining heavily outside!! Again!

Maybe the rain that gets in to your car will run out through the holes in the floor! Just remove the grommets!

In any case fit whatever is safe and undamaged, using the approved mounting points - unless you're a stickler for originality (which I'm not but I do like to play with the fringes of it a bit) it's better to be safe than original. My 13/60 however is beyond the pale and those horrible inertia-reels and stalks, plus the unsightly and incorrect b-post mountings, are going once Quickfit answer my e-mails.

 

 

[Paul Amey]

8 hours ago, DanMi said:

As you have a vitesse mk1 it would probably not have been fitted with seatbelts from the factory, just the floor mount points. So any seatbelt will be aftermarket/dealer fit. I recommend www.quickfitsbs.com they will be able to sell period style or modern belts.

Thank you

[martyn wright]

Hi Colin!  I thought you had a grey set made or is this a different car?  🤔 

[martyn wright]

I haven't fitted them yet?  Just doing the finishing jobs for it to go through MOT!  Will fit them after!  For safety!  But have had to farm the jobs out to a friend who fixes Classics? Due to illness 🤒   it should all be done mid week?  Said that a month ago  lol 😆 

Edited September 26 by martyn wright

[Paul Amey]

Thanks everyone for your help.

[Colin Lindsay]

13 hours ago, martyn wright said:

Hi Colin!  I thought you had a grey set made or is this a different car?  🤔 

Believe it or not that grey set is still in the packaging, intended for the little red 1200. Bought from Quickfit with no faffle, unlike the two current sets. 13/60 needs tan, estate needs black. Quickfit have quoted me for two sets but they're incorrect and I can't get them to reply to corrective e-mails.

[martyn wright]

Oh!  Although I didn't use them in the end!  Read some good things about them?  Do or is there anyone else that sells the chrome bits that you know off?

Edited September 27 by martyn wright

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, martyn wright said:

Oh!  Although I didn't use them in the end!  Read some good things about them?  Do or is there anyone else that sells the chrome bits that you know off?

Very very good with previous orders, but both these cars are non-standard; however 'computer says' differs from 'owner wants' and every time they reply with an invoice (£509.40), they've gone for the same, usual, non-correct fittings, so I send them photos of what I want, no reply, I ring, they say 'sent photos', I do, no reply, I ring and explain, invoice comes out yet again and still incorrect... etc etc.. Very good product but hard to contact.

[Josef]

23 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Very very good with previous orders, but both these cars are non-standard; however 'computer says' differs from 'owner wants' and every time they reply with an invoice (£509.40), they've gone for the same, usual, non-correct fittings, so I send them photos of what I want, no reply, I ring, they say 'sent photos', I do, no reply, I ring and explain, invoice comes out yet again and still incorrect... etc etc.. Very good product but hard to contact.

Did you give Safety Belt Services a go in the end Colin? I had them build inertia reels for my Spitfire but with period style fixing (hooks for the eye bolts etc) with no faff.