Fuel Pump problem late 1600/6

[martyn wright]

Hi!  Having the original AC Delco fuel pump refurbished, I  ran the car on the road over 2 days, first day 15 miles and second day 10 miles it was laid up due to illness for 2 weeks!  I then tried to start the car and found the fuel would not fill the glass bowl!  After using the manual pump again it would not fill the bowl? I found the pumping arm loose and flopping?  I blew down the fuel tank and the glass filled up! On removing the pump I found that the crank arm was bent on the Pump and there was a Worn patch on the end of the arm? also the arm would move side to side? Can someone tell me what would cause this?   I understand that maybe the the arm spring might be the problem? But I believe that the pump was fitted into the crank correctly??

Although I didn't fit the pump myself?

Edited November 3 by martyn wright

[Pete Lewis]

there is a high chance the diaphragm is not connected to the pump lever 

this gives you much of what you describe 

Pete

[johny]

Yes heres the drawing Martyn. As Pete says if the metal fixing at the base of the diaphragm 12 has become disconnected from the link lever 20 then neither the manual or cam arms will be able to pull the diaphragm down against spring 13. No resistance will be felt and obviously no pumping take place so it sounds like a warranty repair job...

[martyn wright]

Hi!  Found one of the small round valve (10) had been crimped on replacing it!  Just fitted a new set, but waiting for a new rocker arm(18) to arrive?  Can't understand why the original arm was bent though  😕 question tho?  Couple of people mentioned that the rocker arm in photo is for the early car? And the other rocker arm (shown 18 on diagram?) Is for the late car? The photo is of my original one that was on the car and my car is a late engine? Cheers

[johny]

The arms got bent! Thats taken some force, is the cam and the rest of the pump ok😮Yes weve had this before that the pump arms came in two versions but dont know if theyre interchangeable - cant imagine cam was different though...

 

[martyn wright]

Hi johny!  I read somewhere that there are 3 different types for my 1600/6?  I was wondering when it looked bent  was the actual spring kapput? As it was able to move it back and forth sideways? It had quite a bit of play?  The unit is up at my mates garage so will have a look this week?

Edited November 3 by martyn wright

[martyn wright]

The pump and cam are fine!

[johny]

Wonder how it got bent and whether it'll happen again😨Fairly sure the arm shouldnt move from side to side as in the diagram theres distance washers 19 that keep it located on the rocker arm pin 17. Maybe just a replacement pump would be best but have to see if supplier can confirm suitable for your engine?

[johny]

Rimmers list 206623 as for 1600 Vitesse and its arm certainly looks similar to yours...

[martyn wright]

Is that the non glass bowl one?  If this s/hand pump from Steve at spitfirespares, Tavistock is good then I'll keep it original? If not I will update to the new pump?  Thanks Johny!

[johny]

Yes thats it. Looking at the arms it must be very easy to get them under the cam and that of course would probably bend them. Maybe thats why the design was changed🤔 

[Pete Lewis]

all the 6 cyl cams have the same pump cam   the only odd ball was the 4 cyl 1500 with heat spacer and a long arm to suit the stand off.

these  delco was fitted to many many makes the arm changed to suit their designs 

there should not be any side slop as that would allow the lever to drop away from its cam 

Pete

 

[johny]

Pete, do you know why theres these two models of pump for Vitesse 1600/early 2L (left) and later 2L (right)? If the cam lobe is the same and the mounting is the same I cant understand why theres a need to offer different lever types....  

[68vitesse]

The early 2L engine had a blanking plate for the crank case ventilation, left over from the 1600, with the fuel pump the same as 1600 and in the same position on the block. The later 2L deleted the blanking plate and the fuel pump was moved lower on the block necessitating the change to the arm.

Change l believe from HC4500E on Vitesse engine when some bearings also changed.

Regards

Paul

[johny]

That would be it Paul, thanks!

[68vitesse]

If you use a later pump on an early block the arm gets broken and so will not pump, I'll give you one guess how I personally discovered this.😁

I have an early and late MK1 2L engine broke two pumps before I consulted the WSM.

 

Regards

Paul

[johny]

oh dear that might explain Martyns problem...

[martyn wright]

Hi! All!  My used pump hasn't turned up yet so unable to check the rocker arm(ref Johnys top pic) The arm is not broken so might just be the spring?

Watch this space, maybe tomorrow??

[johny]

On 03/11/2024 at 13:47, martyn wright said:

Hi!  Found one of the small round valve (10) had been crimped on replacing it!  Just fitted a new set, but waiting for a new rocker arm(18) to arrive?  Can't understand why the original arm was bent though  😕 question tho?  Couple of people mentioned that the rocker arm in photo is for the early car? And the other rocker arm (shown 18 on diagram?) Is for the late car? The photo is of my original one that was on the car and my car is a late engine? Cheers

This seems a bit confusing Martyn. The initial photo is of your original pump which presumably worked fine but it has the early type arm which as Paul said is for engines upto HC4500E. But your engine is later than this and doesnt have the crankcase ventillation hole?

When you see both types its clear the earlier type has the pump mounted quite a bit higher on the side of the block than the later so needs an arm that sits lower to make contact with the cam. In fact I would imagine if you put your finger in the pump mounting hole with the earlier design youll feel the top of the cam while the later it will be the side of it...     

 

[martyn wright]

Hi Johny!  Mine does have a Crankcase Vent Breather Pipe?  My engine is the Last (July66) of the 1600/6s before the 2Ltr which came out in Sept 66?

My Engine no: HB33259HE  Chassis no: HB33176CV

 

And I can feel the top of the Cam if I put my finger in??

Edited November 4 by martyn wright

[johny]

Right so you have an early engine before HC4500E and must use the left hand version in the photos I posted. The other type will have the curve of the arm hit by the cam so although it might just work it will be severely damaged... 

[martyn wright]

10 hours ago, johny said:

This seems a bit confusing Martyn. The initial photo is of your original pump which presumably worked fine but it has the early type arm which as Paul said is for engines upto HC4500E. But your engine is later than this and doesnt have the crankcase ventillation hole?

When you see both types its clear the earlier type has the pump mounted quite a bit higher on the side of the block than the later so needs an arm that sits lower to make contact with the cam. In fact I would imagine if you put your finger in the pump mounting hole with the earlier design youll feel the top of the cam while the later it will be the side of it...     

 

Yep!  So I have a new Straight Rocker Armed Fuel Pump  arriving just in case?  Cheers Johny!!

[johny]

Phew lucky escape with the bent arm pump eh, could have done some damage!