Battery getting 'thumped'?

[Patrick Taylor]

I tried to move the Bond (1300 Spitfire III engine) over the weekend, but turning the key gave a click, but nothing happened. The starter motor isn't jammed -I can turn it with a spanner. What's really odd is that after trying, the electrics go completely dead: no dash lights, lights, or wipers/horn/fan etc. Leaving it for a couple of hours returns it to normal. I put a C-tek charger on it a couple of times, and it quickly went to fully charged. The car was running faultlessly a week ago, and the battery is about a year old, always kept charged. Starter solenoid, or sudden, unannounced battery failure?

[Steve P]

Sounds like a failing cell in the battery?, a test with a multi meter when it dies should tell you.

S

[Pete Lewis]

i would give the battery terminals leads and posts   a good scouring 

back to lead  they can develop a hard shiny coating which makes good insulation 

Pete

[johny]

Yes and ditto for the solenoid terminals which dish out the power to all the car...

[Patrick Taylor]

As you were, with one point to Uncle Pete. I took the negative clamp off yesterday as I was worried about the zero battery output being down to a short. I've just reconnected it, turned the key and...she fired! 13.7V at the battery, running as close to a Swiss watch as these engines can.

I'm still puzzled as to what was wrong, as the clamp was on firmly in the first place, and I didn't clean it...

[Wagger]

Depending upon what your terminals and lead clamp are made of, any oxidation can form an insulator OR a rectifier!

Early rectifiers were copper oxide and they used this feature of the metal. If the battery post is a lead alloy, a thin layer of sulphide can form. 12 volts will not break the insulation down.

Clean all and use vaseline on the terminals.

[Peter Truman]

Would be 1963 just after we'd returned to the UK mum had a new Morrie and at less than 6 months old as we lived up on the York Moors in damp misty conditions mum in all her glory, mink coat/hat, dripping jewellery etc would have to take a high heel shoe off and thump the battery terminals to get the car to come into life and starter connect, even tho at service time the BMC garage in Stockton would grease the terminals, probably only smeared it on the outside (that's what I caught them doing to the handbrake cable grease nipples)!!

[Pete Lewis]

on the assy line we used lanolin on the battery posts  there was always an argument about on the posts or just over it all  i guess the operator just had smooth hands   ???

the military would want the posts loaded , this seems to be another good insulator 

grease and leccy dont really mix well 

Pete

[Stratton Jimmer]

In the past I have used petroleum jelly (Vaseline) on battery terminals. Never had a problem with them.

[Patrick Taylor]

8 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

grease and leccy dont really mix well

Maybe copper grease?

[SpitFire6]

On 05/11/2024 at 18:31, Patrick Taylor said:

Maybe copper grease?

Cannot think why not.
However, any grease between clamped conductors will not affect current flow/resistance. The type of grease will have an impact on corrosion resistance though.
ACF50 is a good choice.

[PeteH]

60+ years of using Vaseline on battery teminals, always worked for me, I usually scrub them with wire wool or similar, the old "pan scrubbers" are good, followed by a wash with brake cleaner, before applying it to the posts. A light spray of lithium grease over the top helps to prevent formation of "crud". I find that a Failing battery cell, often manifests showing a full charge imediately after charging and then rapidly drops voltage as the "dead" cell drags the other cells down.

Currently researching Li-Po batteries for the Habitation side of the Motorhome, they are still bloody expensive though, but sustantially lighter in weight, (2x100ah = 1x 110 LA) and need a whole different charging regeim, but tolerate being discharged further. Second Solar panel is in my sights too.

Pete

[SpitFire6]

4 hours ago, PeteH said:

60+ years of using Vaseline on battery teminals, always worked for me, I usually scrub them with wire wool or similar, the old "pan scrubbers" are good, followed by a wash with brake cleaner, before applying it to the posts. A light spray of lithium grease over the top helps to prevent formation of "crud". I find that a Failing battery cell, often manifests showing a full charge imediately after charging and then rapidly drops voltage as the "dead" cell drags the other cells down.

Currently researching Li-Po batteries for the Habitation side of the Motorhome, they are still bloody expensive though, but sustantially lighter in weight, (2x100ah = 1x 110 LA) and need a whole different charging regeim, but tolerate being discharged further. Second Solar panel is in my sights too.

Pete

I think you mean LiFePO4 and not Li-Po.

[Steve P]

Spent yesterday morning diagnosing my daughters 2018 A Class Merc. Running and driving fine one day, next morning won`t crank but does show dash lights and runs with a jump start. Did it again on Saturday morning in her underground car park in the block where she lives.

14.7V running dropping fairly rapidly to 12.2 and even into the elevens when off. Still on it`s original battery which is massive to cope with the stupid stop/Start feature which coincidentally stopped working months ago. 

Bought a new Bosch battery (£163) and fitted it, all good and the stop start started working again, I hate moderns.

Steve

[johny]

It gets worse - friend has 2008 Audi A8 with facelift LED brake lights (its got 5 separate brake lights!) which were only made for 2 years. All LEDs failed in one, quite small, boot lid unit and probably due to water getting in to the large pcb inside so Audi want 450 quid for a new light😮 Even second hand, if you can find one, theyre 200 minimum and how long will that last....

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Steve P said:

14.7V running dropping fairly rapidly to 12.2 and even into the elevens when off. Still on it`s original battery which is massive to cope with the stupid stop/Start feature which coincidentally stopped working months ago. 

Maybe the stop/start system knew the battery was on its way out so decided not to risk it. A shame it didn't think to let you know a new battery would be needed soon. 🤔

Yes, moderns and their electronics. Recently mine had a failure in one of the ABS sensors on the wheels, this resulted in the dash lighting up like a Xmas tree with upto 6 lights, sometimes it reduced the number once moving. It also disabled the stop/start function (which  rarely activates in daily use due to driving/road conditions) and the cruise control, which I hardly ever use but did want to during the period between identifiying the fault and getting it repaired.

When it was repaired it took me a day or two to get used to not having all those pretty lights on - I sort of missed the excitment of which would come on and which would stay on.

[Steve P]

I had the same thing on my 2103 Passat, I bought a £20 OBD reader on e bay which told me it was rear Left, (all four are different), new Bosch sensor from GSF and 20 minutes to fit and all good.

S

[PeteH]

7 hours ago, SpitFire6 said:

I think you mean LiFePO4 and not Li-Po.

"Finger error", happens a lot these days😭

Battery on "Stop/Start" equiped cars, they have a tendency to fail early it happened on the last Quashqai. Our neighbour had to replace hers recently, and several other people have said the Batteries don`t even last the full "warranty" period.

I have found a good OBDI reader is worth it`s cost. The one I have (i-carsoft) was paid for by avoiding just two trips to the Local Mercedes Dealer to reset Seat switch "errors" at £80+VAT a time. It will deal with up to 10 vehicles if necessary.

Pete

Edited November 18 by PeteH

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

Battery on "Stop/Start" equiped cars, they have a tendency to fail early 

'early' is how long? My modern is 2017 and is fine, but as I said above the stop/start rarely activates so I guess the battery is let off lightly. 

[PeteH]

20 hours ago, Chris A said:

'early' is how long? My modern is 2017 and is fine, but as I said above the stop/start rarely activates so I guess the battery is let off lightly. 

Seems to be "piece of string" length. But most battery warranty`s are at least 3 years now.

Pete

[Steve P]

I purposely went for Bosch when I bought one on Sunday as it had 5 years warranty.

S

[pugwash]

I have a 2017 Subaru (petrol) with stop/start but with a switch so it was immediately pressed to kill the damned system, not only for the battery reason but also because the theory seems wrong to me, how can restarting a warm engine be less polluting than leaving it running at the inevitable red light? Especially so for diseasels.

A few years ago I replaced a battery and even then the garage proprietor told me newer European-made batteries didn't last as long as the Chinese were buying up the lead so here we had to use recycled plombium.

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, pugwash said:

not only for the battery reason but also because the theory seems wrong to me, how can restarting a warm engine be less polluting than leaving it running at the inevitable red light?

Don't have any red lights locally, but yes if the engine cuts out for a very short period then keeping it running is less polluting, all down to how long the engine is off for. In the back of my mind I seem to recall reading something about this very question and that after 30 seconds it was better to cut the engine. No doubt someone here will check it out.

I also strongly suspect that manufacturers installed it so their test consumption/pollution figures look better than they really are in practice.

[Steve P]

My daughter thinks stop/start is a hazard as on her Merc, if it switches off, and another car stops for you to turn or lets you in, the delay in getting the stupid thing running and back in gear (auto) P***es off the other driver.

S

[DVD3500]

 

Regarding fuel/emissions: Any engine that is at operating temperature with the battery full starts wasting fuel after 7 seconds

All our Renault Grand Scénics (3 over 16 year period, company policy) had start stop. Based on various tests I have been told time and time again I have above-average reaction times (drag racing, sharp shooting, skeet and trap, eye testing for various jobs etc.,) I think I only ever managed to get into gear before the engine started back up.

I basically put the car back into gear before the engine had really stops. It took all of a second of de-clutching, neutral and and re-engaging.

With our BEVs we routinely spank Porsche GT3s off the line (they catch up within 100 meters)... so no longer a problem...