Vitesse 1600/6 sum leak

[martyn wright]

Hi! I have now done around 50 miles since finishing my car rebuild(less Hood)!  The Sump has now decided to leak oil?  (The sump doesn't seem to leak when running) ? I checked by placing cardboard under the car over a couple of nights and found  4 or 5 small drops of oil? It looked like the gasket has failed? so I went to my local garage and they agreed but expressed that its a big job to get the Sump off??  Is there a easy way to fit the Sump Gasket?  I did purchase some Engine Oil Leak Stop? But I need to loose a 1 Litre of oil to allow this Stop leak to work?

I never ever had a oil leak previous although the engine was run and the Sump was cleaned and a new gaskets fitted when the engine was out some 10 years ago!

Edited November 27 by martyn wright

[Colin Lindsay]

Make sure it is the sump. It may drip from there but start further up, for example the rear edge of the rocker cover gasket. When the car sits stationary overnight the oil works its' way out and down so appears on the floor in the morning. Been there, and in fact still am, even after sump removal (4 cylinder so much easier!) hammered the dimples flat around the edge, new thicker gasket with additional sealant. I reckon it's the rocker cover.

[Iain T]

So the sump hasn't been off during the rebuild? If so I agree with Colin it's probably the rocker cover or the other favourite is the timing chain cover.

My rocker cover pi##ed out oil until I fitted the cork seal correctly. 

Edited November 27 by Iain T

[68vitesse]

Project Farm did a tube comparison of various projects some of which are available in UK.

Worth a look?.

Regards

Paul.

[johny]

First check the tightness of sump bolts as these seem to loosen and need regular light retightening...

[Pete Lewis]

is it black engine oil or cats pee gear box oil   a quick finger dip and a sniff will tell.

the 1600  crank  has a scroll rear   oil flinger  this can leak if overfilled

do a dipstick check  on your next oil change  use the specified amount  where is that on the dipstick 

ours would allow nearly 1.5 litres overfill if you used the stick markings    wrong sticks does happen 

this explains why it leaks when stopped but not when running 

the gearbox front seal is a scroll so same here   overfill will ....leak

getting the sump of is a faf , need too raise the block a long way up to clear the oil pump

often sump leaks are due to too long bolts in the alloy bridge , they bottom out and strip the alloy threads

easy to tap oversize and use a metric or even 3/8unf  

if you do get the sump off (i would seriously check it is a sump leak)   then canleys sell a thick gasket much better than the simple paper ones 

do your home work  on this   start at the top work down.   a puff of flour or talc is good to show a leak trace

Pete

 

Edited November 27 by Pete Lewis

[DanMi]

the other big potential leak area on early engines (at least in my experience) is the aluminium pushrod tubes. Took my ages to locate and even longer to fix

[martyn wright]

Hi Pete!  I have a thick sump gasket as a spare!  Purchased fm Canleys!  Sump bolts where slightly loose so have been tightened,  will recheck and place new cardboard to check drips?  Can't get in the garage at present?

Cheers everyone!

[daverclasper]

5 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

if you do get the sump off (i would seriously check it is a sump leak)   then canleys sell a thick gasket much better than the simple paper ones 

I understand the sump is normally very close to the steering rack, mine was about 2mm clearance. Mine was still close-ish, even after changing the engine mounts. Maybe another thing to bear in mind if fitting a thicker gasket?. Individual cars will generally be all be different regarding this I assume?  

[Pete Lewis]

Dave its not that thick  more stamped from a card than thin paper 

if the closeness is a worry pack the mount stud with a good thick washer  or similar to aid raising the block 

cant add too much as this is a Vee  , turrets can make a difference  but thats more into the silly season 

there are a number of things that control the engine height

happy christmas   

Pete

[JohnD]

As mentioned above, a leaking sump flange (IF that is the source!) is usually the fault of the DPO (Damned Previous Owner), who has overtightened the bolts.

These bolts should be tightened to 16-18 lbs/ft.  That's all!   Remember that 10-12 lbs/ft is 'hand tight', the torque you can exert using only hand muscles.  Use a torque wrench!     Many such wrenches can't measure such a low torque, but the 'beam' wrench can, is cheap and very  reliable!  

When the DPO heaves on the sump bolts " to make sure they don't leak", they will  distort the thin sump flange, and cause it to 'bell' around the bolt holes, crushing the gasket and making a leak inevitable, not just for them but for for all future owners, as the bell prevents the  flange compressing the gasket along its length.     When the sump is off, and the flange cleaned, inspect it with a straight edge and a strong light behind  to look for belling.   If present, use gentle hammer strokes against a flat surface to straighten them out.   For a  fuller explanation see: https://forum.tssc.org.uk/topic/108-correcting-the-sump-flange-to-prevent-leaks/#comment-730

John

[Pete Lewis]

we were taught to use the ball of a ball pein hammer to strike it with a mallet to reverse indentations on sheet metal sumps/cover plates and the like

there was little gentle about it, on gearbox recons all the PTO blanks got the balls treatment , always a job for the apprentice  ha !

Pete

[JohnD]

You surprise me, Pete!     As the object is to flatten the bell, a flat faced hammer and a flat surface to strike on is best, when a Ball pein will reverse the bell, or worse, expand the metal and distort the bolt hole.   I use a piece of ancient 1/4" plate whose end face I have filed flat.

 

[Bfg]

In case it's of any help, this is what I did with my TR's sump and its gasket.

 

and

 

Pete.

 

 

 

Edited November 29 by Bfg

[martyn wright]

HI!  Well the car has now been standing and unmoved for about 4/5 days?  The few oil drops that I had have stopped apart from one?  And that one is smack on the middle front on the bottom of the timing cover! (On the cardboard) I an unable to delve any further as I'm not well enough!

[JohnD]

A way to isolate an oil leak is to wash all the old oil off ( engine cleaner and a hose pipe) and the dust the part with flour!  Talc might do instead.

Then run the engine.  The leak will.stand out.

John

[martyn wright]

Hi JohnD!  Yes! I have the talc ready!  Just unable to do it at present @  thanks for your input 👍