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GT6 MK3 flamethrower coil and distributor wiring help!?


jimmyrjm
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Hi guys,

 

I have a question regarding the wiring on my 1972 Triumph GT6 MK3, and was wondering if anyone could help clear it up.

 

I had a auto electrician come over a few days ago to help with the wiring who has worked on a GT6 before and couldn't get his head round the wiring set up which links the flamethrower oil to the distributor cap. I have included pictures of my current set up below.

 

The engine turns over but doesn't run, this is due to there being no sparks on the spark plugs which tells me something isn't set up properly on the coil?? I may be wrong but if anyone can give me some advance on the wiring set up or send me pictures of their set up I would really appreciate it.

 

Thanks!

 

Jim.

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without being able to draw a sketch there is a complete cock up here  have you  bridged the ballast to attempt ot bypass it ???  

what coil do you use , flamethrower do coils for 12v   3ohm   and 6v coils    1.5ohm for ballasted .

 

the white yellow is the feed from the starter solenoid to boost the ballasted 6v to 12v just when cranking its starts at a terminal on the solenoid and joins the ballast with a white feed from the ignition.

 

need to know what coil Ohms you have .

 

often aldons and others dont like 6v feeds and  guys bypass and run a 3 ohm coil with  a 12v no ballast  supply  

yours seems to follow that idea but the white feed to the ceramic should be the 12v you need for the aldon and coil

 

all a bit odd     Pete

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Hi

 

So you have a pertronix 1169 electronic ignition unit there. Can you confirm there is a magnetic ring under the rotor arm ?

 

Doug is right about the firing order it's completely wrong. Looks like you have 1 2 6 5 3 4 ugh! But no spark suggests something else as well Two wires positive and negative to the pertronix unit look to be correct The positive one should be the only change to the standard wiring diagram. Sorry not sure what the blue device is

 

Hope that helps a little

 

Aidan

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The blue thing is a old supressor for the radio when it was MW LW you can bin it

certainly nothing aldon flame related

agree the firing order is well mixed up but to start with you need to know when no1 is on tdc compression stroke and see where the rotor is pointing get no1 to align with the rotor and then 153 624 anticlockwise

 

and find a new auto electrician

pete

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Good with a 3 ohm oil you need to remove the ballast resistor as now not required all wires to that can be

Removed, make sure the white you are using is ignition 12v

 

the white should be a 12v ignition feed to the coil +ve where it also connect to the red flamethrower , you seem to have this , but where does that white come from the white yellow from the starter sol can be removed ,

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Good with a 3 ohm oil you need to remove the ballast resistor as now not required all wires to that can be

Removed, make sure the white you are using is ignition 12v

the white should be a 12v ignition feed to the coil +ve where it also connect to the red flamethrower , you seem to have this , but where does that white come from the white yellow from the starter sol can be removed ,

Ah okay, I've removed the wires going into the ballast resistor, and I'm sure the white wire is ignition 12v. And the white and yellow was already removed.

 

I have also got the HT leads in the right order, I've attached a pic below.

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If I were you I'd just make absolutely sure that the white wire attached to the positive terminal coil is definitely a switched 12v feed to the coil - that way you would be able to discount muddled low tension wiring as the cause of the lack of HT sparks. You could use a voltmeter or if you don't have one, wire a bulb between the white wire's terminal and earth (Halfords do a handy 12V  test screwdriver with a bulb in the handle) If it lights up when you turn on the ignition them you've got the right wire.

 

Wayne

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Looking at your last picture of the distributor wiring. Are you sure number one cylinder was a TDC (compression) when you decided which was number one on the distributor? On mine number one is nearer the next one to it, your number four. You can rotate the distributor but it can get difficult if your one out.

 

Here's a GT6 off ebay, 5th picture along shows the Distributor and the wiring orientation. Also notice the angle of the vacuum device, yours is towards the block, this one is away from the block. Suminks not right!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-GT6-MkIII-1974-only-36-000miles-documented-history-SOLD-/322194056346?hash=item4b0443249a:g:qA0AAOSwRgJXie8B

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Looking at your last picture of the distributor wiring. Are you sure number one cylinder was a TDC (compression) when you decided which was number one on the distributor? On mine number one is nearer the next one to it, your number four. You can rotate the distributor but it can get difficult if your one out.

 

Here's a GT6 off ebay, 5th picture along shows the Distributor and the wiring orientation. Also notice the angle of the vacuum device, yours is towards the block, this one is away from the block. Suminks not right!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-GT6-MkIII-1974-only-36-000miles-documented-history-SOLD-/322194056346?hash=item4b0443249a:g:qA0AAOSwRgJXie8B

The timing should be correct as I haven't taken of the distributor from the engine so nothing should have changed, right? I can't seem to see the vacuum device from the link.
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On the ebay picture the vacuum device is the rusty disk just below the distributor, it has the black vacuum pipe going into it.

 

With number one piston at top dead centre (on the compression stroke) and the cap off the rotor, the rotor arm should be somewhere around about 7pm, if you imagine a clock face on the distributor. That should be number one lead from the distributor.

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nows the time to remove No1 (or all ) plugs   stick thumb over plug hole ,, put in 4th gear or turn engine from the pulley 

when No1 comes up on compression you get air fizz past your thumb.  now slowly turn on to the tdc markers align  

 

then look where the rotor is pointing , set that as HT 1  

 

having the dizzy indexed differently may just be someone has popped the drive gear back a tooth out in the past 

or the timing is completely wrong along with the HT lead positions 

 

needs the basics to be correct , not assume  

 

especially if a lot of twiddling has been offered

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I will do as you guys have suggested and get back to you probably tomorrow, once I have got the right TDC. also just curious would the wrong configuration of the spark plug leads and it not being at TDC be a reason for the engine to not start up.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jim.

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Not sure about the earth link

cant remember if this is valid but on fitting the aldon have you removed the earth link from the dizzy moving plate to the case ?

 

Im sure this needs to be in place to earth the coil

 

Pete

Haven't removed the earth link from the distributor so should earth itself.

 

I have fiddled around with it today with some help. I have positioned the coil on the body. (Pics added below) I tested the coil which is in working order and produces a spark. However I believe there is a problem with the pertronix 1169 electronic ignition unit as I am not getting any feedback from it when tested when the engine is turned over.

 

I would like to remove the electronic ignition system and replace it with the original condenser and points. What do you guys think?

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you must add the dizzy moving plate earth link to earth the moving plate to the dizzy .!!!!  youres is missing

is the sprung rotor top touching the dizzy cap brush theres a lot of debris in here ,  could be from burnt brush or rotor , the sweep arm is pretty blackend

whilst delco dont suffer much from rotor rivet earthing i would replace the rotor ,,  when you do get a spark hold the coli HT lead 10mm above the rotor , and crank, if spark jumps to the rotor its stuffed if it doesnt its either OK or you dont have a HT strong enough.

aldon are in the main pretty reliable

 

see note 8   

 

Read all instructions before attempting to install... 1. Turn the ignition switch off or disconnect the battery. 2. Remove the distributor cap and rotor. Do not disconnect the spark plug wires. 3. Examine the cap and rotor for wear or damage. Replace as needed. 4. Remove the points, condenser, and grommet. 5. The Ignitor does not require any modification to the distributor. Therefore the points, condenser and hardware can be used as backup. 6. Clean any oil or dirt from the breaker plate and point cam. 7. Install the Ignitor plate onto the breaker plate, and fasten Ignitor plate in place. 8. If the distributor ground wire was removed during the installation process, be sure to re-attach it securely. 9. Install the magnet sleeve over distributor shaft and onto the point cam. Rotate sleeve until a slight locating position is felt before applying pressure. With sleeve lined up on point cam, press down firmly insuring the sleeve is fully seated. 10. Insert both wires through the hole in the distributor housing. Pull the grommet into place. Make sure that the wires do not interfere with any moving parts. 11. Replace the rotor and distributor cap. Make sure that all spark plug wires are attached securely. 12. Connect the Ignitor black wire to the negative (-) side of the ignition coil. 13. Connect the Ignitor red wire to the positive (+) side of the ignition coil. 14. Reconnect the battery and make sure all wires are connected correctly. 15. The engine can now be started. Let the engine run for a few minutes and then set the timing in the conventional manner.

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you must add the dizzy moving plate earth link to earth the moving plate to the dizzy .!!!! youres is missing

is the sprung rotor top touching the dizzy cap brush theres a lot of debris in here , could be from burnt brush or rotor , the sweep arm is pretty blackend

whilst delco dont suffer much from rotor rivet earthing i would replace the rotor ,, when you do get a spark hold the coli HT lead 10mm above the rotor , and crank, if spark jumps to the rotor its stuffed if it doesnt its either OK or you dont have a HT strong enough.

aldon are in the main pretty reliable

 

see note 8

 

Read all instructions before attempting to install... 1. Turn the ignition switch off or disconnect the battery. 2. Remove the distributor cap and rotor. Do not disconnect the spark plug wires. 3. Examine the cap and rotor for wear or damage. Replace as needed. 4. Remove the points, condenser, and grommet. 5. The Ignitor does not require any modification to the distributor. Therefore the points, condenser and hardware can be used as backup. 6. Clean any oil or dirt from the breaker plate and point cam. 7. Install the Ignitor plate onto the breaker plate, and fasten Ignitor plate in place. 8. If the distributor ground wire was removed during the installation process, be sure to re-attach it securely. 9. Install the magnet sleeve over distributor shaft and onto the point cam. Rotate sleeve until a slight locating position is felt before applying pressure. With sleeve lined up on point cam, press down firmly insuring the sleeve is fully seated. 10. Insert both wires through the hole in the distributor housing. Pull the grommet into place. Make sure that the wires do not interfere with any moving parts. 11. Replace the rotor and distributor cap. Make sure that all spark plug wires are attached securely. 12. Connect the Ignitor black wire to the negative (-) side of the ignition coil. 13. Connect the Ignitor red wire to the positive (+) side of the ignition coil. 14. Reconnect the battery and make sure all wires are connected correctly. 15. The engine can now be started. Let the engine run for a few minutes and then set the timing in the conventional manner.

you must add the dizzy moving plate earth link to earth the moving plate to the dizzy .!!!! youres is missing

is the sprung rotor top touching the dizzy cap brush theres a lot of debris in here , could be from burnt brush or rotor , the sweep arm is pretty blackend

whilst delco dont suffer much from rotor rivet earthing i would replace the rotor ,, when you do get a spark hold the coli HT lead 10mm above the rotor , and crank, if spark jumps to the rotor its stuffed if it doesnt its either OK or you dont have a HT strong enough.

aldon are in the main pretty reliable

 

see note 8

 

Read all instructions before attempting to install... 1. Turn the ignition switch off or disconnect the battery. 2. Remove the distributor cap and rotor. Do not disconnect the spark plug wires. 3. Examine the cap and rotor for wear or damage. Replace as needed. 4. Remove the points, condenser, and grommet. 5. The Ignitor does not require any modification to the distributor. Therefore the points, condenser and hardware can be used as backup. 6. Clean any oil or dirt from the breaker plate and point cam. 7. Install the Ignitor plate onto the breaker plate, and fasten Ignitor plate in place. 8. If the distributor ground wire was removed during the installation process, be sure to re-attach it securely. 9. Install the magnet sleeve over distributor shaft and onto the point cam. Rotate sleeve until a slight locating position is felt before applying pressure. With sleeve lined up on point cam, press down firmly insuring the sleeve is fully seated. 10. Insert both wires through the hole in the distributor housing. Pull the grommet into place. Make sure that the wires do not interfere with any moving parts. 11. Replace the rotor and distributor cap. Make sure that all spark plug wires are attached securely. 12. Connect the Ignitor black wire to the negative (-) side of the ignition coil. 13. Connect the Ignitor red wire to the positive (+) side of the ignition coil. 14. Reconnect the battery and make sure all wires are connected correctly. 15. The engine can now be started. Let the engine run for a few minutes and then set the timing in the conventional manner.

Hi Pete thanks for you response. I will look into the earth link as it does not appear to be there. Can you buy them? And yes I have ordered a new arm, point system and a condenser. Attached a pic of what I've ordered. That list is every useful thanks Pete.

 

When the parts arrive for the dizzy I will install it and post I the forum again If I have any success or not.

Thanks for all the responses!

 

Regards,

 

Jim.

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the moving plate link is there to assist the top plate actually earthing to the base and case, often the top plate sits on plastic buttons to slide, some have sring clips or a rolled rim to hold the two together, al a bit unreliable when stuff starts to get moving ,so for years there has been a short flexible lead to link the plates , you can make one out of any wire but it has to be a bit heat proof and flexible

 

its a simple lead with an eyelet each end , fix one to a base plate screw and the other to the aldon hold down or any spare hole to take a screw be it threaded or a tapper.

always  make sure this screw does not go through to far or it will jam the top plate from rotating with the vacuum capsle .

 

note on you base plate the word OIL is stamped in , this just needs a good squirt of engine oil  thro' a hole to lube the top bush in the base 

its not engine lubricated and these wear badly  and you get a lot  of cam spindle sideways slop and cant control the points gap

A lecy unit is less affected and solves some wear problems here.

 

anyway fit the wire it may actually start  !!!!

Pete

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