EFI Herald

[Darren Groves]

As I'm one of a couple of Forum users that are in the process of fuel injecting their car (rogerguzzi being the other), I thought I'd start a thread on my installation for those with in interest in this kind of thing. Apologies to the purist who like originality, you best go and renew your points & condensers again rather than read this thread   ..... only kidding.

 

I've been plotting this for a couple of years now if truth be told, but I'm at the point now where I've done as much research I as I can and my collection of bits to do the job has grown suitable large that I have no more excuses to get started for real. 

 

I would like to point out that most of my research has been in the main part via Nick Jones (Thanks Nick!) and his very informative Sideways Technology forum. If you're think about going this route, you could do a lot worse than getting yourself over to that forum.

 

I've been running Megajolt for a few years now, so the ignition side is pretty much in place. No need to change much here as the trigger wheel, crank sensor, Ford coil pack & EDIS are the basis of the Microsquirt's ignition control anyway. There are alternatives to this set-up, but it's worked fine for the last >10,000 miles so I see no need to change it.

 

My plan is to swap over the Megajolt ECU with the Megasquirt and use it for ignition only for a short period. This will allow me to familiarise myself with the MS software and ensure that the ignition side of it is working OK, before I enter the un-chartered waters (for me anyway) of EFI.

 

So whilst the list of bits you need is fairly extensive, the image below was the box of goodies I received from Trigger-Wheels last week. MS ECU, Extended Loom, Map sensor, Fuel Rail, Injector Bungs, 02 Sensor bung, Shielded cable and a few bards for vacuum take offs.

 

 

The other parts I've collected which are a mixture of used and new include, Rover 25 Throttle Body, Rover 25 Injectors, High Pressure Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Vauxhall Vectra Fast Idle Valve, Coolant & Air Temp sensors, various other bits and bobs and enough steel to make about a dozen inlet manifolds (steel is cheap....)

 

There's various ways to do the inlet manifold, but I shall be fabricating one with 4 runners with a plenum and single throttle body. The reason I went this route is because it's simpler & cheaper than individual throttle bodies and in theory should provide noticeable improvements in power, torque and economy. It's a well trodden path in EFI conversions, so I feel comfortable doing it this way.

 

So below is the basic bits for the inlet manifold. 35mm (o/d) for the runners, 76mm for the plenum, with a 60mm extension to make it easier to mount the throttle body. My only issue is that I'm trying to find someone to fabricate the manifold flanges, options aren't plentiful down here in rural North Devon, so still working on that.

 

 

Power supply to the MS is a bit more complicated that MJ. Separate relays are needed for ECU, Injectors, IAC Valve & ECU, then another relay for Fuel Pump & O2 sensor, this one is controlled by the ECU so the pump & O2 sensor aren't running when they shouldn't be. I've now also added a 3rd relay to feed the Coil Pack & EDIS.

 

 

Fuel supply is also a tad trickier than for carbs, you need a high pressure fuel supply and a return and a way of preventing fuel surge when cornering etc. especially when you low on fuel. Some use a swirl pot, others pumps inside modified tanks, but for the Herald I shall be taking advantage of the fact it's tall and thin. Thanks again to Nick for this idea.

 

The existing fuel line will be increased to 8mm and become the return. My spare tank will have the drain tap removed and a steel bung welding in to allow the fitment of a barb to accept a fuel line to filter and high pressure pump, these will be mounted on the boot floor or outrigger (have decided exactly yet).  Before I go on I should say that welding fuel tanks isn't a good idea for obvious reasons, but I must admit to doing it before. This tank hasn't had fuel in it for a year and it had a very hot and powerful jet wash before I began cutting it up. Yes I used and angle grinder, yes the tank was filled with sparks and I'm still here to tell the tale!

 

Below is the old drain removed.

 

 

Below is the old drain on the left and the new plate and boss for the barb ready to be welded in.

 

 

 

The death of my welding mask stopped play here, so that's pretty much where I'm at, more to come in due course.

 

Hope it's of interest to some!

 

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Darren

                    I wish I had your patience I decided about 2 weeks ago?

 

I was thinking of buying a TR4 but we like Spitty and I like tinkering so I am about £15 to £20k in pocket?

 

Roger

 

ps I will not crowd your blog? will carry on on the other one! unless you want me to contribute to this one from a different tack?

[Darren Groves]

Hi Roger,

 

It's great that there's two of us doing this at the same time and even better that we're taking slightly different routes. I don't think you can read too many accounts of how people do this kind of thing and hopefully what we both put on here might help someone else, so feel free to post on this thread or the other or both, more the merrier I say!

 

If you're already trying to load timing maps you're doing well. Have you just connected enough to access the ECU or are you well into the wiring phase?

 

Darren

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Darren

                     Only on the desk top! thought I would try and get in front of myself? and load the ignition map I run on Megajolt but stretched to 12 x 12 as a start( I am sure there will be tears of frustration and the rest)

 

Its good to stretch this old brain but wine is clouding it now!

 

I have get it sorted for next year as we have booked the ferry to Bilbao for  mid June for another grand tour?

 

May go to Spa earlier(its great being retired and just enough money to be silly)

 

Plus SKI,ing (spending the kids inheritance)

 

Roger

[Darren Groves]

Managed to get the fuel tank modification finished over yesterday and today. I went a bit OTT with the welding really as after letting in the patch that contained the the bung, I then decided to weld in plates that overlapped the original weld, then finished off with a skim of (allegedly) fuel resistant liquid metal type compound.

 

The image below is after welding in the patch, bung and plates.

 

 

Then I added a skim of liquid metal. The barb has a 12mm push on fitting which matches the inlet on the fuel filter.

 

 

I'll give it a leak test when I get some fuel to put in it, but the question is do I take a further precaution and use a tank sealing kit?

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Darren

                    Is this the type of air control valve you have got?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172314803966?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

If so does that mean you are going to fit a different transistor to you Microsquirt to drive it?(I don't think it could be put inside the case as there would be no heat sink for it)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TIP120-NPN-Transistor-from-ST-Microelectronics-choice-of-1-or-2-pieces-/291210960746?var=&hash=item43cd869f6a:m:m66VQf2jU7do3r5pAR_T0Kg

 

I have bought this ignition module and remembered one of the reasons I am going to remove Megajolt is that with this fitted you can run a rev limiter(fuel and ignition or either)

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331704617090?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

This looks a good price?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322234557236?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I wonder if this is just an on/off valve?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261958536623?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

This is on Ebay but p&p to much

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182246153385?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

 

Roger

[Darren Groves]

Hi Roger,

Yes that's the IAC valve I bought, it's a 2 wire PWM type. In the Megamanual it states the following, so my understanding is that Microsquirt can run them without modification:

Note that if you are using a PWM Idle valve, such as those used in some Ford products, the standard transistor on a V3 main board is not sufficient to power the valve directly (on a V3.57 SMD main board, or a MicroSquirt, the FIlde transistor *IS* sufficient to drive a PWM idle valve without modifications).

I haven't looked at Rev Limiter, I thought MS had a soft & hard limiter option anyway?

I haven't decided on the Wideband controller yet. The LD Performance one seemed a really good price, but I couldn't find much about it anywhere and nobody on the Sideway's Forum had used one either.

The Innovate one seems popular, but I have read a few poor reviews on it. I'm leaning towards either the Spartan or Techedge at the moment, but I could be swayed towards the LD on if I could find some good reviews. Alternatively save the money and get it set-up on a rolling road and just fit narrowband.....

So many decisions to make!!

Darren

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Darren

                    You are right it was me reading the wrong instruction(there are so many?)

 

I still like the look of the LD wideband controller the Techedge one has a lot of options I don,t need (I think you can do the same for a lot of the from Microsquit software?)

and £109 for a complete kit!(or £89 without gauge and open to offers so perhaps£5 to £10 cheaper?) even if you do not leave the gauge connected.

 

https://ldperformance.co.uk/product/wideband-controller/

 

Roger

[Darren Groves]

Hi Roger,

 

The only thing that makes me uneasy about the LD Performance controller is that their website has no address, only a mobile and their Facebook page is barely used, just doesn't instil much confidence if you have a problem.

 

Cheers

Darren

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Darren

                    You right it does seem a bit uncertain?

 

Let me run this pasted you if we fit a wideband Lambda sensor drive drive around for a while until the unit learns and adjusts the fuelling map and then if we are unlucky and the LD unit fails could we not then just fit a narrow band sensor as the fuelling map should be about right?  

 

I received my injectors today and the seller sent the whole set up off a rover(injectors, harness,fuel rail and hoses) he had both for sale on Ebay at £48 for full kit or £40 for just injectors (I do not think it would be worth sending the parts back?)

 

But now I have a harness made up! I will just remove the plug off the end and solder some cables of the correct colours to connect to Microsquirt(and fit the rubber sleeves that I have on the spare plugs)

 

I also received the TPS and it fits perfectly on the throttle body so pleased as it is a genuine Rover part for £22.95 inc free p&p  

 

So I hope these will save me some heart ache when trying to set it up as they should be good parts?(I think there will be enough things to sort out with out faulty parts)

 

Roger

[Darren Groves]

Hi Roger,

 

I done a bit more reading on the 02 sensors last night, I have just about decided that I will go for the Spartan 2 which is £128 delivered from ExtraEFI. No need to calibrate, no bells and whistles, the controller is built into the cable and uses the Bosch sensor.

 

If the wideband sensor failed, why not swap it out for another, the price difference between the 2 is not huge.

 

I grabbed a selection of junior timer connectors of a scrap Ford manifold I found in a pile of unwanted parts, saves a few quid.

 

Cheers

Darren

[Darren Groves]

The engine side valances curve in and up on a Herald, so not much room for the plenum & throttle body, so no other option but to modify it to allow more room. My only concern before doing this was whether it will provide sufficient support for the radiator, but with it all back in place it seems fine. I will keep an eye on it and add additional support if needed.

 

 

[Steve C]

Hi Darren

 

You won't have any issues with it, the key is to retain the flanged top edge, as that is where the strength is. I "cut and shut" the driver's side one on my Herald 1200 in similar fashion to accommodate the carbs and manifolding for the 1500 Spit engine, without any issues 6 years on. Retaining the flange also prevents your wrists being slashed while working on the car.

 

I must say that for old buggers like me, it is fascinating following this thread. I feel like a tourist who has landed in some foreign airport and is listening in on two locals conversing in a completely foreign language. It is like alphabet soup to me, and all sounds very complicated!

 

Regards

 

Steve C

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Steve C

                      No its not (he lied?)

 

I was thinking of doing as Darren is but I have always fancied a pair of Weber's(but not the hassle you can sometimes have)

 

I don't like TR6 injection (it was as good as Triumph could do at the time)but things have moved on!

 

Now from what I understand you can the best ish of both worlds(lean cruising and richer for power when the Red mist drops) 

 

Plus it will look Posh ish I hope(or a pigs ear?)

 

As I said I thought seriously about buying a TR4!(£15K to £25K!!!!!) but we like Spitty and have done 22000 miles in 6 years, not a terrific lot but been to Classic Spa three times,Classic Le Mans Twice, toured Spain last year(2500 ml) and Italy this year plus going to Le Mans(3600 ml) 

 

Plus off to the Emerald Isle a week Monday for  13 days touring in Spitty of course 

 

We have also BOOKED the Ferry to Bilbao for next June for a Spanish/Portugal trip

 

So I recon I will be £14k to £24K in pocket?

 

Plus I do like messing(I have been running Megajolt for 5 years and fitted it to my brother in laws TR6)

 

By now you probably realise we are retired and have just enough money to be Silly????

 

Roger

 

 

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Darren

                   I have bought the same IAC as you and I thought I had bought a duff one because it looks slighty open when not powered up? but when I poked about I found the valve is spring loaded.

So I assume it is meant to open when engine is turned off(stop run on?) or to do with limp mode?

I will have to make a 4 way maifold to feed all 4 throttle bodies?

Will you just have to feed the main plenum?

I wonder if it would be worth buiding in a restictor valve into 4 way minifold for fine tuning? or is that over thinking the problem?

This good fun and gets the old brain working even if it turns out rubbish!

I can't wait to get stuck in but we go to the Emerald Isle in a weeks time for 12/13 days in Spitty so will have to wait until at least October?

Still I have most parts now just the manifold to get when on offer from Moss(restoration show?)

Still thinking about the throttle linkage(you will not have that problem?)

I have looked at the Jenvey stuff but is expensive and not sure I want for and aft layout I think I prefer Triumph way over the rocker cover(more thought needed?)

 

Roger

 

ps out on a run Monday into Sunny Wales

[Darren Groves]

Hi Roger,

 

My IAC valve is also slightly open when not powered, my understanding (though may be wrong) is that when powered the valve will then open/close as required, so I think the one you have is fine.

 

I must admit I've done almost no reading about ITB, so hopefully Clive will chip in with something as I think he will know more.

 

Likewise I have ordered just about everything, I went for the Spartan 02 sensor in the end so that should arrive this week, that's probably the last of anything other than bits and bobs. You need stuff like this to exercise the brain, it's more interesting than Crossswords and  Sudoku.

 

Have a good trip to Wales.

 

Darren

[Darren Groves]

Most of the work for the EFI conversion in the last couple of weeks has been wiring related. Running feeds for the relays and fusebox, adding in the extra wiring for the EDIS, power feeds to injectors, fuel pump, IAC valve and sensors etc., the theory being that when I have to start making connections for real it will all be in place and a lot easier.

 

As I will be using the MS ECU for ignition only for a while, in theory all that's left now is to swap the tubing from the MAP sensor on the MJ and connect to the new 2-bar exernal sensor I've fitted. Then remove the shielded cable that currently carries the PIP/SAW signals to/from the MJ ECU to EDIS and make new connection between the MS ECU and EDIS.

 

Below is the wiring at the very messy crossover stage. The MS ECU is the black box in the top/centre to the right and above is the MAP sensor, the new relays and fuse box can just about be seen across the very top. It should all start to look a bit tidier when I can remove the MJ ECU and associated wiring.

 

 

With the MS ECU now powered and earthed, it did allow for a small glory moment. Connection to the ECU was made, so now I can create an ignition timing map to suit my current set-up. I will just use one that replicates the existing MJ set-up for now, there is also a new engine on the way so the map will need to be re-done when that's fitted.

 

[Darren Groves]

The Megajolt is out (and on eBay if anyone interested!)

 

The Herald is now running on the new Microsquirt ECU (Ignition Only), here's a very short video: https://youtu.be/hrmQO2LATJw

 

The map table for Megajolt is 10 x 10, Microsquirt 12 x 12, so a little imagination was needed to create it, but it is essentially the same.

 

Next stage is to fabricate the inlet manifold, but this is where I am going to be held up as I need someone to make the flanges......

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Darren

                    That is a good result my playing will have to wait until we have been Ireland but want to do the same (run ignition first so I know when I have fitted the fuel injection if it does not start it is fuel not ignition!)

 

I like the spaghetti ?

 

We had a good run into Wales today and covered about 250+miles

 

Roger

[Darren Groves]

Hi Roger,

 

I was going to wait until next week to do this as it's club night on Thursday and I wanted to ensure it was running, but in the end my impatience got the better of me. Quite simple in the end and she started on the button.

 

Ebay add here if anyone wants to run Megajolt: http://r.ebay.com/87PFe4

 

Great photos from your Wales trip, have fun!

 

Darren

[Darren Groves]

Until I find someone to make the manifold flanges I'm at a bit of a loose end in terms of inlet manifold fabrication, but the 70mm piece of steel tube turned up today, which will be home for the Intake Air Temp sensor, so I took the opportunity to make the housing for it.

 

This will fit into a piece of ducting in between the air filter & throttle body.

 

Below is the 3/8 NPT bung after welding onto the steel tube.

 

 

This is how it will fit. I can see me replacing the ducting as this one is impossible to cut without destroying it.

 

[Darren Groves]

I haven't been completely idle with the EFI conversion, but I am still to get the flanges made for the inlet manifold, however good news on that front as a local member has kindly volunteered to have a go at making them for me on his lathe.

 

Onto what I have done - Now the amount of wiring needed to do this shouldn't be underestimated, especially if you decide to tidy up big chunks of all the other wiring you've added over the years. I'm pleased to say that apart from the rev counter wiring (more on that later) all the under dash wiring is done, some to do under the bonnet when I start fitting injectors and the like, but inside the car for now it's pretty much there.

 

The replacement fuel tank is now welded up, tank sealing kit used to ensure any pinholes in my welding are closed up and the outside treated with POR-15 rust preventative paint, which doesn't look too bad given it was brush painted. I've used this paint a few times before and it really is very good. Goes on well and dries to a rock hard finish that won't chip or peel unlike the pretty useless Hammerite.

 

 

 

I've been running the car on the new ECU (Ignition only) for a few weeks now, and it's doing a good job, but one niggle is that I can't get the rev counter to work properly. Now the ECU does have a 'Tacho Out' wire, but it's a 5v Square wave signal that isn't much good for the old electronic Smith's Rev Counters. If I use the Tacho Out wire I get a low reading that won't read over 1200rpm, the EDIS also has a Tacho Out connection but the Rev Counter does nothing when connected to this. Adding various resistors as suggested proved unsuccessful as did Firmware updates to the ECU.

 

One fix that should work is a coil driver, this grabs a signal from either side of the coil pack (The Ford Coil Packs are actually 2 coils in one unit). More success with this in that when it works it's accurate, but it only works sporadically.

 

 

One last suggestion below from Nick Jones, his own homemade creation which has been working on his car for many years, so hopefully this will do the trick for me. I should of been able to report whether this was successful or not but I managed to lose a pack of Transistors in the garage somewhere, which I'm bound to find once the replacements arrive in the post!

 

 

Electronics makes my head spin a little, so this has been rather taxing on the old grey matter, but kind of fun in a strange way.

 

If all else fails Speedy Cables will convert your old Rev Counter to modern internals, but it's understandably not that cheap to do.

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Darren

                    I now have the inlet manifolds and a few more bits(still undecided about the pump still fancy it in the tank)

 

I have not started the conversion yet as I had to replace the n/s u/j (read the Saga!)

 

Spitty is all back together now and back on the ground(well the ramp is lowered)

 

I have just re read your last post about the Tachometer! did it work on Mega jolt? as my spitfire one is perfect.

 

I converted my brother in laws TR6 one earlier this year using this kit and it worked perfectly (there is a report on the TR Register forum if you can acess it?)

 

https://urevco.com/

 

Roger

 

ps I think I will have the inlet manifold power coated black before final fitting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Darren Groves]

Hi Roger,

 

I've been following the U/J story, glad that is sorted.

 

Yes the Tacho worked fine with Megajolt, but no luck with the Microsquirt I'm afraid, I tried all the suggested fixes but nothing worked reliably. In theory the Tacho Driver I bought from Trigger Wheels should have worked, this is the same set-up that's mentioned in the Megamanual, this gave the best result, but still very patchy. In the end I bit the bullet and sent it to Speedy Cables who can convert to read the tacho out signal from the ECU, I had a speedo I've been wanting to send for calibration anyway, so seemed the simplest solution. Turnaround is 4-5 weeks though, so will not know for sure if it works for a bit.

 

You may be lucky with your tacho, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't even if the set-up is the same.

 

All the under dash wiring is done and excess run through the the engine bay and I have fitted the modified fuel tank, so can't do too much more until I get the flanges made for the inlet manifold, but a local TSSC member who is a retired engineer and has a lathe in his garage, has kindly offered to help.

 

Keep us posted with your install, we may both need a little moral support as we go through it!

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Darren

                    Was it a RVI or RVC type tachometer?

 

How much do Speedy cables charge to convert one?

 

The kit I fitted to the Brother in laws was 90ish euros and was easy to fit and very accurate I checked it against the Megajolt software

 

Roger