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**19/09/21 Olive ** Probably how not to restore a Herald!


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2 hours ago, poppyman said:

I can only think it's the bigger doors Colin?

Tony.

I suspect the LED tubes; they're very bright and with the white-painted walls the place looks quite sunny. Flies come in, head for the roof windows, then find out it's not a tunnel they can go in one end and out the other. I just can't understand why there are hundreds of them all doing it!!

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57 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I suspect the LED tubes; they're very bright and with the white-painted walls the place looks quite sunny. Flies come in, head for the roof windows, then find out it's not a tunnel they can go in one end and out the other. I just can't understand why there are hundreds of them all doing it!!

Could be the LED tubes, i also have white walls and large south facing window ordinary flourescent lights, but no roof lights. I do get quite a few but not hundreds...... Change of aftershave perhaps? :) 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, poppyman said:

Could be the LED tubes, i also have white walls and large south facing window ordinary flourescent lights, but no roof lights. I do get quite a few but not hundreds...... Change of aftershave perhaps? :) 

Tony. 

It's the windows they flock to, Tony, not my chin. Nor armpits, either.

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  • Bordfunker changed the title to **04/10/20 Patchy Performance ** Probably how not to restore a Herald!

No chance of flies today, or at all this weekend, given the torrential rain.

Well not in Oxfordshire at least.

Which has at least meant some time in the garage, as there was no way the  lawn was going to get mowed, not without a submarine lawn mower, and I couldn't be arsed to go to the tip.

During the week I'd had a sort out of my many boxes of bits and pieces that have come off the car to date, which unearthed one of the body to chassis mounting plates which I had cut off the car due to it being seized.

So I thought I'd kick of with something that I've frequently read about, but hadn't had an opportunity to actually try, namely welding a nut onto the seized bolt to aid removal.

xxfeKm.jpg

An old Nyloc performed the task of sacrificial nut.

C4dhgL.jpg

Nice big blob of weld, which left the Nyloc smoking and glowing cherry red, which just left the cutting of the un-threaded portion of the bolt.

JW47zz.jpg

Which then allowed me to wind out the remains, leaving me with another chassis to body mounting plate to add to my motley collection.

iiJOat.jpg

o3zE9H.jpg

According to the WSM I should have 4 of the large mounting plates, but I only have 1, which is probably not surprising given that the chassis was missing a number of mounting bolts when I took the body off!

With the welder warmed up, and my eye in so to speak, I set about finishing the arch repair patch, by cutting the slots that would allow me to create the required curvature of the lip to meet that on the arch repair section.

dxftPz.jpg

Each of the slits was then welded, leaving me with a rather snaggle toothed looking piece.

BO8RSv.jpg

Not pretty, but a quick buzz with the angle grinder to remove the unwanted sections, left me with this.

0rlpWZ.jpg

Much more presentable, and now almost ready for fitting.

But before I can even think about fitting the patch, I needed to first cut out the remaining rust around the base of the B-pillar.

4EhZEe.jpg

There's a flange at the base of the B-pillar, which is spot welded to the closing plate which runs between the B-piller and rear arch, and I first needed to drill out the spot welds to release the flanges.

KuWytw.jpg

I then cut away the B-pillar flange, as well as what was left of the closing plate. Note how cruddy the metal to the right of the mounting bracket looks in the pic above.

5NarlE.jpg

Rust had got in between the two sections, but thankfully the bulk of it superficial only, however water had obviously pooled at the base of the B-pillar inside the car, as there was a rust hole behind the flange next to the mounting bracket.

Which meant cutting out the perforated section, during which, due to my ham fistedness, I managed to damage a perfectly health body mounting bracket. D'oh!

5Jfse3.jpg

I could have kicked myself.

Nothing for it but to weld up the cuts.

XUR9Qd.jpg

By this time I had to wheel the tub back into the garage as it had started raining again, and I really didn't fancy electrocuting myself with the welder!

And this was the cut that had caused all the trouble in the first place.

75rxr8.jpg

All of which meant another repair section was in order.

Now I could have just folded up an L-section to plug the gap, but that would have been incorrect, as the left hand end of the patch needs a joddled section to accommodate the closing panel joint.

I therefore made it in two parts, welding them together to get this.

YgIgqZ.jpg

Note joddled edge to the right, which goes in thus.

V9Ak9S.jpg

It needs further trimming before final fitting, but that can wait until next week, following which I can start making up the closing panel.

All in all it is a slow and laborious process, but now that the welder is working as it should, and I can therefore obtain predictable results, I can actually enjoy the process.

Did I mention that I am a glutton for punishment?

Karl

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10 hours ago, Bordfunker said:

Which then allowed me to wind out the remains, leaving me with another chassis to body mounting plate to add to my motley collection.

o3zE9H.jpg

According to the WSM I should have 4 of the large mounting plates, but I only have 1, which is probably not surprising given that the chassis was missing a number of mounting bolts when I took the body off!

Interesting thing about those - which matches quite a few that I have - is that the nut has stripped off. I find it happens a lot more with new versions than the older heavier originals but - as I seem to remember Pete mentioning elsewhere in this forum - they're only meant to be tightened down to a good grip, not gorilla tight, which I think has happened to mine and which I did myself to a new replacement a few months back. I've worked out that the body is only meant to be held in place, not squished down so hard that it distorts the bushes. Thankfully if the sills are off many can be reached with a standard spanner so adding a nut, and a large washer to spread the load onto the plate, is easy.

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Looking at the quality of the new mounting plates I’m not surprised most seem to be missing their nuts. Never nice!

So I’ll just source some new nuts and weld them on once I’ve cleaned up the plates themselves.

Just need to find some more mounting plates to make a full set.

Karl

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I was supposed to be decorating this weekend, but Mrs B wasn't feeling it, which meant after mowing the lawn, doing the shopping, and a trip to the tip, spread over two days, I was free to play in the garage and continue what I started last week.

During the week I spun the tub through 180 degrees on the dolly, to make access a bit easier, rather than working up against the garage wall, which allowed me to take a closer look at the job in hand.

I decided to give the area between the two arms of the body mount a going over with a wire brush.

Oh dear!

HOCzKQ.jpg

That all looked a little frilly, with no option but to replace it, which meant I would need to remove the body mount in order to get access.

Given that the body mount was perfectly serviceable, I decided to try and remove it intact by drilling out the spot welds.

Well that was the plan at least.

aMxIET.jpg

The plan worked perfectly for the spot welds in the green oval, where I was able to just tap a sharpened wood chisel through the remaining weld to release the mount.

That plan is however, very much dependent upon the underlying steel being sound.

When I adopted the same approach with the welds in the red oval, the metal of the floor pan proved weaker than the welds and so split.

Nothing for it but to cut out the mount in sections. Bugger!

sUr7ni.jpg

Which left me with this. Note the state of the metal where the mount attached to the heel board below the back seat.

Nothing for it but to cut out the offending metal, back to something solid.

BD9TIg.jpg

With the mount out of the way, I was able to cut the offending section of floorpan away, exposing the base of the B-pillar, which thankfully was extremely sound, as I was having nightmares about finding rot going up into the pillar itself.

2x3HeV.jpg

I'll need to weld a new flange on the left hand base of the B-pillar, but other than that, it was in good condition thankfully.

Which was as far as I got yesterday, but after my trip to the tip, and mowing the lawn today, it was back to the garage to start making good.

I decided to patch the hole in the floorpan first, starting by cutting out a suitable patch from sheet steel, and holding it in place with a welding magnet.

eyaQGY.jpg

Then it was out with the welder, and an hour an a half of welding, grinding, and sanding to leave me with this.

gujNzl.jpg

Now that may not look much, but I am well pleased with that outcome.

There are a couple of pin holes which need addressing next week, but given the trials and tribulations I have had with the welder, this is a good result, and achieved relatively swiftly, by my standards.

To make this one more awkward, I couldn't just leave the welds as is, because the mount sits here, so it had to be flush, but sitting between the two strengthening ribs, couldn't be easily reached with the angle grinder.

Thankfully, last month I bought an air powered finger sander, which apart from its appetite for sanding belts, is fantastic at getting into tight spaces, and thus ideal for this job.

Next week I'll add the flange to the B-pillar, and then take a look at the area on the heel board as I have a feeling that will need patching as well.

Oh, and I need to order a new mounting bracket apparently.

Karl

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  • Bordfunker changed the title to **11/10/20 Mounting Tension? ** Probably how not to restore a Herald!
12 hours ago, Bordfunker said:

Thankfully, last month I bought an air powered finger sander, which apart from its appetite for sanding belts, is fantastic at getting into tight spaces, and thus ideal for this job.

Have used a B B powerfile for years and will only buy Norton belts as the cheap ones frequently separate at the joint.

Regards

Paul

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Thanks Pete.

I’m quite enjoying the cutting out and welding, as although the rot isn’t great, it’s all fixable, and at least I know it’s fixed.

Paul, I don’t find the belts on my snap, more so much end up bald!

Now that may be user error, but having found the Norton  belts at a similar price to what I pay at MachineMart , I’ll give those a go.

Thankfully the rest of the welding in this area is fairly accessible, so it’ll be flap-disc in the angle grinder territory.

New body mount has been ordered today.

Karl

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Fingerfiles are fantastic tools. Not the cheapest sanding/grinding tool in NZ but bloody handy

I bought my first one late one friday when welding up a S1 Landrover bulkhead. The curve on the end of the belt was the perfect shape for the piece I was welding and I had no other way to grind down the weld neatly.

On another metal finishing note I have recently been using a cheap belt sander as a linisher. I couldn't be arsed dragging my big linisher around and the belt sander got into corners that are no go with the big beast.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/10/2020 at 10:07, 68vitesse said:

Have used a B B powerfile for years and will only buy Norton belts as the cheap ones frequently separate at the joint.

Regards

Paul

Paul, where do you get your Norton belts from?

I looked online and found a supplier in Germany that was reasonable, until I checked the postage, which was double the cost of the belts! 

I know I live on an island but that taking the p.

Karl

 

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4 hours ago, Bordfunker said:

Paul, where do you get your Norton belts from?

I looked online and found a supplier in Germany that was reasonable, until I checked the postage, which was double the cost of the belts! 

I know I live on an island but that taking the p.

Karl

 

I get mine here Karl. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13-X-457MM-NORTON-CERAMIC-R929-SANDING-BELTS-FOR-POWER-FILE-PREMIUM-QUALITY/173766759359?hash=item28754e53bf:g:R2MAAOSwNHpfTUKr

Tony.

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You remember I removed the body mount the other week, and I found out that the metal between it and the rear seat heel board were a little sketchy?

Yes?

Well that's what I've spent the last 2 weekends attempting to fix.

This was take 1 before I started welding.

k7190t.jpg

Looks fine doesn't? What could go wrong?

Long story short, I ended up blowing a wealth of holes in both the car and the repair panel.

Cue take 2.

No pics this time, I wasn't in the mood for them.

Same result!

It was at this point that I realised that I was out of welding gas!

That would explain the blowing holes then.

Schoolboy error on my part, should have checked the gauges before I started welding.

Well that was last weekend, I ended up exactly where I started out.

So this weekend I went back to the drawing board and cut out a larger section, and started making up a repair panel for the heel board.

Zyvp6V.jpg

Larger hole!

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Repair panel, made up almost ready for fitting.

Final tweak, to tidy up the fit.

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And time to set the panel up for welding.

eucWuX.jpg#

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Time to break out the welder.

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I'll admit it's not pretty, but it is all nice a strong, and in the right place.

And after a going over with a variety of sanding discs in the angle grinder.

WO3w4p.jpg

X03yIU.jpg

It needs a further clean up when the sanding belts arrive for the finger sander, and there are a couple of little pin holes which need to welded up, but overall that was a good 5 hours spent over the weekend.

One fly in the ointment though.

Remember that replacement mounting bracket?

Well I offered it up to the car.

Ky5JDP.jpg

Spot the issue?

All the other mounting flanges are in the correct place, and in contact as they should be, so it looks like the flange in the pic above is in the wrong place.

Looking at the one on the Chick Doig site, it looks like it's the same, so I have a strong suspicion that they are all the same.

Nothing I can't fix, but a shame all the same.

Next job is to attach the inner wheel arch repair section so that I can then make up the horizontal section at the base of the B-pillar.

Karl

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  • Bordfunker changed the title to **25/10/20 3rd Times a.... ** Probably how not to restore a Herald!

Now you've started me on a search for a good but not exorbitant file... 'finger file' means nothing over here but 'air powered belt sander' throws up a lot of examples, including this amazing value item - reduced from £269 to a measly £21. I reckon the decimal point has been in the wrong place but the belts might last longer than the actual tool... :)

1572841717_ScreenShot2020-10-25at16_38_29.jpg.9f81d1eb2221bf953c3bd511c0088720.jpg

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Colin I can’t recommend them highly enough as mine has been excellent for tidying up welds and cut edges where an angle grinder just won’t reach.

I got mine from MachineMart for about £60, but they do a cheaper one for £50.

You will need an oiler as well to ensure everything remains lubricated.

Karl

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1 hour ago, Mathew said:

I have a silverline electric finger file, it has been great for getting into those tight spaces.

Ditto.
I bought 2 off Ebay UK and they keep on going and going
My first one was a Black and Decker but the price wanted for a replacement was daft and the Makita one was silly money. 
Two Silverlines including shipping to NZ for less then the price of a B & D locally.

Adrian

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  • 3 weeks later...

No updates for a few weeks, not because of a lack of activity, but more a lack of progress on my part.

I did manage to get the last of the inner wheel arch repairs welded in, but that is where progress appeared to come to a grinding halt for the next few weeks.

9dyn78.jpg

When I'd finished this, I turned my attention to the horizontal sill area that sits between the B and C pillars, and which had rotted from underneath the body to chassis mount, i.e. this bit.

2x3HeV.jpg

This is where the lack of progress comes in, as I struggled to understand the relationship between the various elements of this area of the car's structure, most importantly the vertical portion of the sill which forms the closing panel behind the bottom of the rear wing aft of the door.

With me so far?

So I thought I understood how it all slotted together, having pored over the photos I had taken when stripping it all down, so decided to weld this reinforcement section in at the base of the B pillar.

KBRXe5.jpg

That would at least move things forward, right?

Apparently not, as this then meant that the repair panel which sits between the trailing edge of the door and the rear arch wasn't even close to fitting.

Bugger!

What to do, all of the datum points in this area had been cut out with the rot?

At this point I remembered that I still had the original cosmetic lower sills which bolt between front and rear wheels!

Cue this.

s01DTj.jpg

This then provided me with a point to work to for the inner horizontal sill section.

Having said that, it didn't stop me having to make the repair sections twice as the first one was undersize.

I told you there was no lack of activity, just an absence of progress!

This was last weekend, so I returned to the fray this weekend with a game plan, and a decent datum to work to.

So I made a new repair panel, which fitted this time, gave it a coat of zinc weldable prior, and then set to with the welder.

EK16S5.jpg

 

dHvzPH.jpg

Which then got a going over with a flap disc and the finger sander, particularly where the new body mount was due to sit.

2418Q5.jpg

With that in I could then trial fit the lower wing repair panel, and the body mount, using the ever handy Clecos and Mole grips.

y7JZvY.jpg

Ijg2X9.jpg

That is now starting to look a lot like progress.

There are still at least 4 small repair panels which I need to make up and weld in before I get to fit the outer repair panels, but that now at least looks like a realistic ambition now.

Happy days.

Karl

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  • Bordfunker changed the title to **16/11/20 Silly Season ** Probably how not to restore a Herald!
  • 1 month later...

Long time no update because I've been under the weather for the last few weeks, certainly not the Rona, but certainly something that I could have done without, particularly as it is currently the busiest time of the year at work, so the weekends have been spent taking it easy in order to get through the next week.

Having said that, this week has finally seen whatever it is sling it's hook, and allow me to get back into the garage.

I'd left things with the sill area still needing a number of small patches to make good the localised rust at the back of the B-pillar base.

poCdbx7Sj

First two patches made up and tacked in.

po0xg7bVj

Not sure what happened here, but I managed to blow a hole in a brand new piece of steel! Not sure how, but that had to come out and a new patch made up, and welded in.

My welding is still feeling a bit hit and miss, but we'll get to that in a bit, but I did finally end up with this.

pnD2RWWEj

This will get a skim of filler at some point, but for now is solid and relatively tidy.

Next up was sorting out the fit of the lower rear arch edge to the section between B-pillar and arch, as although I had made up a repair section, the fit wasn't quite right.

So stealing a solution from another forum, I cut a slit in the panel, allowing me to move the lip back a milimetre or so.

pmvdHyLqj

The slit was then welded back up, leaving me with the lip in the correct place.

pndL7VEgj

Pic taken mid clean up, but note the missing chunk at the top. Another victim of my welding.

Turns out, I'm out of welding gas again, less than 2 months since getting a new bottle, so not sure if the bottle wasn't full, or I've got a leak. Either way I'm off to get some more gas before the Xmas break.

It explains why I was having issues with the welds.

So overall, not a lot of progress, but I've got 11 days off over Xmas, so hopefully with a refilled bottle of welding gas, and a lockdown in place, I might actually get the rear arch finished off.

Karl

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

A belated happy Xmas everyone!

Being one to get my priorities right, I made sure that I picked up a fresh bottle of welding gas from the farm shop before Xmas.

Presents? Not as vital as welding gas!

With gas purchased, and given that we have moved into Tier 4 here in Oxfordshire, I have been doing my bit for social distancing by hiding in the garage for the last couple of days, despite the bitter cold in there.

First up was welding up the reinforcing flange that ties the base of the B-pillar to the inner horizontal sill.

This is supposed to be spot welded in, but I went all belt and braces, and seam welded it into position.

pohVXi8xj

Next up was body mounting bracket itself, cue much use of Clecos to trial fit the bracket.

pnCyXgJTj

poE0vbjJj

The awkward bit was going to be the back face of the bracket where it mounts here.

poH5nFrFj

So holes were drilled ready for plug welds, and a Cleco inserted from the rear to pull the bracket into place.

poDL4anqj

Time to break out the welder.

pmgu68Dnj

Not having a spot welder, I used plug welds, creating a pool of molten weld metal in the holes punched out of the flanges.

They need a bit more tidying up, but are strong, and this whole section of the tub is feeling a lot more rigid than it ever has since I've had the car.

In a few places I had burn through of the flange, leaving a ragged edge, which left me with an opportunity to try a new welding technique.

poV4QF8mj

Essentially this involves taking a piece of copper with a straight edge and holding it against the edge to be welded. It's then just a case of welding up to the copper.

In this case my piece of copper was a flattened pipe union.

The weld won't stick to the copper, so leaves you with a nice straight edge, and therefore this is technique that will come in very handy when I start to weld up the more visible panels, where neatness will be required.

In between doing all of that I made a start on removing the over step sections which include the flange for the lower door aperture seal.

The reason I am doing this is because rust has broken out between the the two panels, leading to bulging, and a nagging doubt as to the underlying condition of this section.

Nothing for it but to grind and cut out the spot welds, and have a look.

The front edge, looking very rusty.

pnOjknBPj

And then, what is currently the underside, showing the extent of the rust ingress between the two panels.

pnXt0buZj

Nothing terminal, but certainly not what I want.

This will be cleaned up with wire wheel in the angle grinder followed up by a generous application of rust stopper.

I've already got the replacement over steps ready to go, so this will just need punching for the plug welds on the outside edge, the inner welds I will do from above as that should be less obtrusive, and won't need cleaning up.

I'm giving it a break today as I managed to burn my arm yesterday, not while welding, but while making a cup of tea!

Bloody muppet!

Still hoping to be back in the garage tomorrow to finish up the body mounting bracket, and make a start on the outer B-pillar to rear arch repair panel.

Karl

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  • Bordfunker changed the title to **29/12/20 Bracing! ** Probably how not to restore a Herald!

Happy New Year everyone!

I thought I'd start the year the same way as I intend to continue, by making some progress on the Herald.

With the body mounting bracket welded up, there is nothing to stop me starting the process of closing up the side of the car, but which in turn means attending to all the little issues before the outer repair panels can go on.

Before I started I trial fitted the repair panels with self tappers to get a feel for how everything hangs together.

pn9BFOrzj

pmjfX7BFj

Definitely some fettling required to obtain a decent fit, not least moving the centre of the arch out about 5mm with the aid of a Birmingham screwdriver to ensure that it matched the other side of the car.

Then, before I got carried away, because I did on the other side of the car, I needed to sort out how the rear of the lower sill attaches to the base of the B-pillar to rear arch section.

Originally I believe that this was attached with a Spire clip and a self-tapper through the top of the lower sill, however mine had long rusted away, so I decided to go with a couple of captive nuts.

These then needed welding into the B-pillar repair section like so.

pnQtcr0kj

All of which should  provide a sound location for the rear of the lower sill panel, which would otherwise be waggling around in the breeze at the sort of the velocities that the Herald will no doubt achieve.

And from the outside it all looks very neat.

pmQ7G7hyj

Not standard I know, but I used what was to hand.

The next job was to resolve the joint where the 2 external repair sections interface with the upper section of the remaining wing aft of the B-pillar, here.

pnvLkRHkj

I went with cutting out this section of the arch repair section.

pnk9fskoj

Leaving me with this, a much neater joint. Note flanged edge punched into the repair panel in order for it to sit neatly behind the wing.

po6OTHYzj

Next up was sorting out an area of the arch lip which I had over thinned.

5 minutes with the welder and some sheet steel, left me with this.

po6IixTgj

As you can tell I am getting into the groove with my welding, which is probably good given how much there is still left to do.

And while the welder was out, I sorted out all the pin holes in the arch repair sections, which in today's freezing temperatures at least provided some warmth in an otherwise frigid garage!

Have you never felt the need to hug freshly welded steel for warmth? I have!

As you will no doubt have already noted, I was being very methodical and working from the B-pillar backwards, which brought me to the very rear of the rear arch.

poLEx6g2j

The sharp eyed will have spotted my deliberate mistake here.

Yes the flange is in the wrong place, and as per the arrows, needs to move over about 10mm.

I ran out of time at this point, so rectifying this will have to wait until tomorrow, not that it should prove overly difficult to correct, I'll just need to slit it, then push it over before re-welding.

All of which took me around 3 hours, interspersed with regular breaks for tea in the house in order to regain the feeling in my toes.

Happy with that, and it finally feels like I am getting closer to closing up the rear wing.

And finally, after struggling with poor lighting while welding, I did the sensible thing, and attached a light to my welding helmet.

pm8MSi8Wj

Et voila! There was light!

I am stupidly pleased with this!

Once again, Happy New Year.

Karl

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  • Bordfunker changed the title to **19/09/21 Olive ** Probably how not to restore a Herald!

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