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** 26/02/23 Heading Up ** Probably how not to restore a Herald!


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10 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Heated seats and an excellent heater made for very comfortable driving in our 93 a few years back; I used to drive home from work at 3am with the top down and just listen to the country noises, at all hours of the night and all times of the year. I  tried the same stunt in my 1200 convertible on 23rd December and had to put the hood up after only three or four miles...

I agree Colin, top down motoring on any dry day is a joy with a good heater and heated seats. Now that I have it back on the road my Spitfire will be used all year round and once you have had heated seats you can't do without, which is why I have bought a set of heated seat pads too. Mine arrived 2 weeks ago and are still on the garage bench. Can I ask that you take pictures and keep us posted on your experience Paul?

Adrian

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8 hours ago, Adrian Cooper said:

I agree Colin, top down motoring on any dry day is a joy with a good heater and heated seats. Now that I have it back on the road my Spitfire will be used all year round and once you have had heated seats you can't do without, which is why I have bought a set of heated seat pads too. Mine arrived 2 weeks ago and are still on the garage bench. Can I ask that you take pictures and keep us posted on your experience Paul?

Adrian

I will open a new post on Electrical and document my efforts on adding heated seat pads. This is part of a project to add new fuse boxes, alternator , light relays, halogen upgrades, radio, spots and rear fog lights . Because I want to drive my Vitesse the project will be carried out in phases 

Paul

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Despite the weather, I decided to press on with the welding on the passenger side seat belt mount, sorting out any pin holes, and grinding back the welds to something vaguely neat and tidy.

OOydlu.jpg

This then got a coat of weld through primer, before application of an internal reinforcement patch, here it is held in place prior to welding up.

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There is a corresponding reinforcing plate on the outside of the panel, which should make for a suitably robust seatbelt mount.

Before I drilled the new mounting hole, I took a look at the mount on the driver's side for reference, I wish I hadn't!

YcZa0L.jpg

Like the passenger side, rot had got in between the reinforcing plate and the panel itself, leaving the panel paper thin!

Nothing for it but to break out the grinder and a cutting disc again.

Here we are with the main patch already welded in, but having to cut out a further patch to deal with the thinner corroded metal where the panel has been stretched when it was pressed.

4zmcoF.jpg

I did manage to get a patch in place on this before I finally gave up this afternoon as the garage was down to about 2 degrees as a result of having to leave the door open.

So I figure at least another session of welding & fettling before I can call the seat belt mounts done, but at least I know that the mounts are now at least solid!

Karl

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Despite preparations for Xmas taking precedent at the moment I managed to get some time in the garage over the weekend, working on the seat belt mounts.

I suppose I could have just slapped a patch over the rot and moved swiftly on, but that would have felt like a bodge, and would only have come back to bite me a later date, so instead I've gone belt and braces (excuse the pun!), and fitted internal reinforcement plates as well as external.

Here's where I was yesterday with the side wall of the footwell welded up, and marked up ready for me to drill the hole for the mounting bolt.

fAbUXr.jpg

The welding isn't particularly pretty, even after the attentions of a grinder and flap, disc, but I know it's bloody strong as even attach with a centre punch and a lump hammer produced no deflection.

With the hole marked and drilled I created an internal reinforcement plate from 2mm sheet steel, which was coated in weld through primer, along with the footwell patch and allowed to dry off overnight as paint takes an age to dry in this weather.

The patch was then shaped to follow the contours of the panel and welded in place.

V1nWL3.jpg

Again, not exactly a work of the welder's art, but it should be plenty strong enough now.

I then cleaned up the metal on the outside of each well with wire brushes and a power drill, before applying a coat of Kurust to ensure that the rust stays at bay.

Once this has dried off it will get a coat of weld through primer, before the external reinforcement plate gets fitted, along with plenty of seam sealant to ensure this doesn't happen again, well at least not for a long time.

Following last month's smouldering cable incident, I took the precaution of fitting a Dis-Car-Nect from the club shop.

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This will save me unhooking the battery after ever session.

And while the bonnet was up I took the opportunity to re-fit the air filter, after sorting out the mounting flange and clamp, so that it actually fits securely now.

2UNkR0.jpg

With the seat belt mounts all but sorted, you'd think it would be time to put the MIG welder away?

Wrong, I spotted a couple of tiny holes in the passenger footwell, which I decided to investigate with a screwdriver.......

6WCzwT.jpg

.....Oh dear! Or words to that effect!

A couple of minutes with a wire brush in the angle grinder produced this.

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The body to chassis mount was chock full of mud and general road detritus, and had simply rotted through the floor, not helped by the fact that the passenger side had received a hefty whack at some point in the past making a mess of the sill mounting flange, and allowing water to penetrate between the double skinned joint. All of which was not helped by a felt pad glued to the floor at this point which has acted like a sponge!

Nothing for it but to break out the angle grinder and air powered cutter and start cutting back to good metal.

lzDPSC.jpg

Not a great photo, but that's the chassis mounting bracket you can see, along with some of the distortion from a previous accident which has damaged the floor and bulkhead at this point.

Due to the location, I had to resort to an old wood chisel and lump hammer, which made short work of slicing back to the outer skin of the bulkhead.

I had been intending to sort out the sill mounting at some point, so it's not a great shock, but will mean a few more sessions fettling repair panels from sheet steel and much welding, hunched up in the footwell.

I think I know what my New Year has in store for me!

Karl

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  • 3 weeks later...

Pete, that does make mine sound almost mint!

Well after 2 weeks where work and Xmas have taken precedent in that order, I finally managed to get back in the garage on New Year's Day for a couple of hours.

I finally fitted the seatbelt reinforcing plates, making sure that these were first painted with primer, and then sealed with seam sealant to prevent them rusting from the inside out in future.

No pictures, but they are not very exciting anyway.

With those done, it was time to turn my attention to the passenger footwell, and cut out all of the rot.

This meant removing the section of floor, as well as the retaining bracket which ties the shell to the chassis, along with a chunk of the scuttle panel behind the bonnet, leaving me with this.

UIukbM.jpg

Not pretty, but at least I know I am back to decent metal that I can weld to.

This revealed that whoever replaced the side rail last time only bothered to weld the side and bottom, not the top.

1ewSeH.jpg

They didn't even bother removing the remains of the original rail!!!

So one of the first things I will have to do is weld the two together so that at least it's all fully attached.

Does make me wonder what state the rest of the joints are in, and means I'm more inclined to remove the shell from the chassis next winter so that I can properly sort both.

You can also see the remains of the body mounting bolt in the picture above, which had to be cut and ground out, and has still left the shaft of the bolt stuck in the hole.

Needless to say this is now marinading in penetrating fluid, before I attack it with a drift and a lump hammer.

Next up was making a template out of card for the repair panel which is going to have to mimick the curvature of the floor on the inside, and the sill mounting lip on the outside.

DEXzfR.jpg

This was then flattened out and transferred to a sheet of 1mm steel.

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Rapidly followed by 20 minutes of cutting with a 1mm disc in the angle grinder.

yBvfzM.jpg

There then followed 2 hours of work to start forming the curve, and the lip required to match the profile of the floor.

lyy0xn.jpg

Rather fortuitously Santa delivered a hammer and dolly set, which have proved immensely helpful in forming the curve so far.

Here it is with the new mounting bracket sitting on it.

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The bracket will need shortening as it is longer than the original, but nothing that 10 minutes with an angle grinder can't achieve.

Yesterday evening I had a go at recovering the driver's seat, and fitting the new foam, however someone else had need of my seat!

tfXcE1.jpg

Beagles, worse than cats for sitting on stuff.

Karl

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With life slowly returning to normal after Xmas, I got an afternoon in the garage today, having first chopped the Xmas tree and consigned it to the recycling bin!

Last week I left the main patch for the passenger side footwell with the inner curve and lip formed, but with more work to do to tidy up the fit and create the outer lip to which the sill is attached.

This meant an hour and half of offering the new part up, checking the fit, and tweaking the panel, before repeating, over and over again, which left me with this.

JCD06c.jpg

And showing the sill mounting lip.

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Here it is installed....

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...and from outside of the car.

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Overall I am pretty chuffed with how that has turned out. The fit is good all round, and it mimics the contours of the original panel pretty closely.

The replacement mounting bracket is a generic item and thus needs to be modified to fit this particular location on the Herald, so I cleaned up the old mount and used this as a template to cut a small portion off the new bracket.

QLpoLM.jpg

Next up was to make a replacement section for the side lower bulkhead that I cut away last week, a much simpler task than the main repair section.

hMTSUb.jpg

And this is how it relates to the previously fabricated section.

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It will need cutting down to fit, but the shape is a good match, which means I now have all the sections I need.

Before I do that though I'm be switching to welding with gas, rather than the gasless set up I've been using for the last 8 months, as with the welding focus shifting to visible areas of bodywork, I'm not convinced that gasless will be neat enough, so there may be a break for a few weeks while I practise my welding.

Karl

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just when you think you can see light at the end of the tunnel, you realise it's a train!

I didn't get anything done last week, so yesterday was my first few hours back in the garage for a couple of weeks.

First order of business was the remains of the mounting bolt stuck in the front outrigger, which despite 3 weeks of soaking in Plus Gas, simply refused to budge, even with persuasion.

While looking at the end of the front outrigger, and the side rail, trying to figure out how to get the bolt out, it became clear that there were holes in the side rail that shouldn't be there, both at the front and rear!

Here's the front outrigger after removal of the side rail.

cERAbv.jpg

Note several layers of metal!

Obviously the previous bodger couldn't be bothered to remove the remains of the original rail, and just welded the other over the top!

No wonder it rusted.

The back end was no better.

Wr8Txy.jpg

With rust between the rail and the outrigger, and a number of patches.

The side rail wasn't even welded to the central outrigger, probably because of this.

ZtEYw5.jpg

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You can see the remains of the old, original rail still welded to the top of the outrigger!

A quick look at the other side of the car showed that the side rail on the driver's side hadn't even been cleanly cut to length!

AOFcxg.jpg

That's a ragged edge on the side rail!!!!!

I also found another hole in the front bulkhead floor plan above the second mounting bracket on the passenger side. You can't see it from the inside as it's hidden behind the A pillar.

I found all this in the space of about an hour, and I'm now left wondering whether I should just bite the bullet and take the body off and sort out that chassis once and for all?

Karl

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cutting the old floor off and not realising the new floors are only a part pressing with all the Apost area being flat not raised 

the  old had gone before the new arrived , this was remedied by the rules of a jigsaw , a hotch poch of bits and peices to 

get back to having somewhere to weld the sill and body mount.....chic doig do a sill /Apost repair section..we didnt know about when attempting a record in  weld wire useage think body off is  the best way forward from here,  doesnt take long to lift them off, then you can make a nice squared up chassis and weld the tops of the riggers , the old wonky body may need large packers to seat it correctly far more than you may expect   

final_part_of_the_jigsaw2.jpg.be1fc7f84c9ae17f1b116b280225ad14.jpg

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18 hours ago, Bordfunker said:

.... I'm now left wondering whether I should just bite the bullet and take the body off and sort out that chassis once and for all?

Hi Karl, You have done such a conscientious job on the rest of the car that it would seem to be a real shame to miss the opportunity to really make sure that you have found and eradicated all the rust and  PO's less diligent work.

I would take the body off and I suspect you have come to the same conclusion. But I may just be being selfish as I am enjoying your thread!

Good luck

 

Adrian

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Pete, that looks like Frankenstein’s Herald!

I was thinking of un-picking the interior vertical panel at the bottom, and cutting further up, allowing me access to the rear for patching, before welding it all back together.

The alternative would be to remove the bulkhead and go in from underneath, but I don’t really want to do that at the moment.

As for the rest of the chassis I agree with both you and Aidan, if I want to do this properly, it’s probably going to require removal of the rear tub, as I can still replace the front outriggers without having to remove the bulkhead.

Tub removal may have to wait until Easter when both boys are back from university, but first I’ll need to build a moveable frame for the tub to sit on while I work on the chassis.

Thanks guys

Karl

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Yes a cross between  guesswork  a wing and a prayer, followed by being clever afterwards.

Two can lift and carry the tub, mine sat in the front garden for a week

And a few repairs done by lifting the front end , with a mat under the overiders  and two pit props to hold it up ended 

Pete

 

 

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Not a lot of visible progress to report this week, and therefore no pictures, as pics don’t really show freshly bled brakes and a hopefully sorted slow running problem.

First up was the brakes which were bled a couple of months back before I started on the seatbelt mounting points, but there was still air in the system.

This time I had the expert assistance of Mrs B to pump the pedal while I worked my way around the car.

Result, one set of fully bled brakes which stop the car nicely.

After that I spent the rest of Saturday afternoon tidying the garage, including finally mounting the fire extinguisher on the wall by the garage personnel door.

I didn’t get into the garage until late today, so decided to try and sort out the slow running issue which has bugged me for a few months now.

I know the carburettor is working fine, but the car refused to run consistently, and kept ‘oiling’ up the plugs with unburnt fuel, which suggested that the choke was not working properly.

Checking the choke cable showed it to be dry as a bone, and notchy as hell, so out came the 3 in 1, which was applied liberally to the length of the cable, and then the cable worked back and forth until the action became smooth again.

All the plugs were then removed and cleaned before I tried starting the engine.

I am happy to say that the engine stated first time, and after 5 minutes to warm up, and a bit of tinkering with the idle speed and idle adjustment screw, seems be OK.

So not a lot to show for 4 hours work, but the Herald now starts and stops, and the garage is actually fairly tidy for once!

Karl

 

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Following on from last week's tidying of the garage, I decided to start work on a small wooden framed vehicle, no not a Morgan, but a welding trolley.

This was prompted by me finally getting around to picking up a bottle of welding gas from the local farm shop, after which I really couldn't put off building a welding trolley.

Now I know most people make a welding trolley out of steel, after all they own a welder, but I've got very little steel, and being tight, decided to use some of the bits of wood I have lying around the garage.

The welder and the gas bottle are none too light, so I made up a framework from  1 x 1 inch timber, with 6 inch deep sides made up of 9mm ply, and a couple of 1 x 0.5 inch timber uprights to support the bottle, et voila!

Wc0P3d.jpg

Alright, it's not exactly Chippendale, I'll give you that.

axFaCG.jpg

Note cleverly repurposed old belt as a means of restraining the gas bottle.

And here it is all loaded up.

ezFjTD.jpg

BuE9p7.jpg

There are still a few more things to do, such as adding some bracing for the uprights, and a lip at the front of the trolley, in front of the cylinder.

Now I just need to attach the gas regulator on the cylinder, followed by the feed to the welder itself, swap the leads over for the welding torch and earth lead, and I should be good to go next week.

You may have noticed that the garage is empty, leaving me plenty of space to build the trolley, an emptiness facilitated by the Herald starting on the button this afternoon, despite not being charged for a week, and then running beautifully for 20 minutes parked on the drive.

It looks like last week's work on the choke has been successful, as I subsequently got the car to restart a number of times this afternoon, all without drama.

Karl

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  • 2 weeks later...

I did actually manage to get the welder set up last weekend, but spent what time I did get in the garage playing with the welder as I haven't welded with gas before, and my first attempts on scrap steel were completely pants.

They looked OK, but had the holding power of chewing gum! More practice required.

Therefore although I managed about 6 hours on the car over this weekend, progress may not reflect that, as I spent at least 2 hours playing with the welder settings, and my technique.

First up was attaching the mounting bracket to the underside of the repair section that I made last month.

2oBRso.jpg

Here it is with a coat of weld through primer.

This was second attempt at attaching the bracket as the first one just fell off due to lack of weld penetration!!!!!

Next up was installing the repair section.......

3zX0m0.jpg

......this is the view from the foot well, with the panel held in with 3 welding clamps.

These clamps really are an essential aid in getting everything aligned.

Here's the view from the outside.....

PXrE3f.jpg

This is the outer lip along the lower body to which the valance mounts.

This was welded up, which proved a real faff as access from inside the car is very limited.

It looks OK until you put a bloody great welding helmet on, at which point that footwell is suddenly very small!

Luckily I still had the hand held welding mask that came with the welder, which allowed me to actually weld successfully in the foot well.

Which left me with the vertical section of the repair to complete......

xswbTZ.jpg

I had to remove the bonnet locking bracket as it was getting in the way.

Here it is after the first tack welds.....

xWBhui.jpg

.....and following welding and a bit of clean up with the angle grinder and a flap disc.

LiiNaC.jpg

I know it's not pretty, I had to stitch weld it to prevent blowing through, however with a bit more work with the angle grinder I should end up with something that is acceptable, particularly after a smear of filler.

Now I had thought this was perhaps the last of the rot in the footwell, dream on!!!!

This is the underside of the base of the A pillar.

AUajKK.jpg

You can see where the outer skin has rotted out just to the right of the mounting bracket, as well as the larger shiny patch, which is actually the rear of the A pillar pressing!!

What you can't see is the hole hiding above the mounting bracket which comes out in the box section behind the A pillar.

To fix this I'm going to have to cut a section out of the lower A pillar pressing inside the car, so that I can access the rot from above, after which I'll cut it out and weld in a repair section, before replacing the section of the A pillar that was removed initially.

Given that I'll be mucking around with the A pillar, and therefore potentially weakening it while it's repaired, I decided to remove the passenger side door, giving me this.

sCwyMH.jpg

The doors are going to have to come off before I remove the body, so it was already on the to do list.

Still, looks like I know what I'll be doing next weekend........

........now where did I put the angle grinder?

Karl

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The plan for this week had been to finish up the welding on the bulkhead patch and then start cutting out the A-pillar, so that I could tackle the repair to the floor beneath the A-pillar.

First up I started welding up the patch, an inch at a time to prevent distortion, followed by a blast with the airline to cool it all off.

SMF7Ik.jpg

As per my usual welding style, not pretty, but I am pleased to say, very strong!

F9D095.jpg

Here it all is from the inside, thankfully all of this will be covered by the foot well trim panel.

Confession time : I thought I would clean up the bulkhead weld a bit more with the angle grinder, and went a bit too far. I ended up going through the metal, and had to make up a new small patch and weld that in.

7xyJ08.jpg

I'm going to treat myself to a die grinder, which I can then use to clean up the welds which are inaccessible to the angle grinder, so for now I'll be leaving this as is, before I do anymore damage!

With that as far as it was going to go for the weekend, I turned my attention drilling out the spot welds on the A-pillar.

First up I hit it with a 120 grit flap disc in the angle grinder, which removed the paint from the flat of the panel, just leaving it in the recesses of the spot welds.

Simple, now just drill out the spot welds.

It was at this point that I found out that all my drills are too blunt for steel!

hraGme.jpg

Of course nowhere local stocks spot weld drills, so I'll have to order one online, and have another go next weekend.

With that plan stymied, what to do next?

Given that the rear body and roof will be coming off shortly so that I can tackle the out rigger repairs, I thought I might as well make a start on disassembling the rear of the car.

First up was the boot lid.

Simple, undo the number plate light cable, and then unbolt the hinge bolts?

No. Never simple.

Some numpty had soldered the cable directly to the bulb holder!!!

So I decided that rather than muck around with the light fitting itself, as it looked somewhat fragile, I'd simply install a bullet connector between the loom in the boot and the branch to the number plate light.

With that little surprise sorted, I removed the boot lid, rapidly followed by the petrol tank, which came out without a struggle.

Ro0aCg.jpg

I was trying to work out why the car wouldn't start last week, turned out the tank was empty, which was a blessing given this weekend's activities!

Next up was the rear screen, which I wanted to remove as the screen rubbers are shot, as you can see below.

yWp4Vj.jpg

Needless to say, given the state of the rubbers, the screen came out without a fight!

The screen itself has a stick on demister fitted which I thought I could just peel off, however there are two bars, one at either side of the screen which look to have been bonded to the rear screen.

Has anyone got any tips for removing these?

Karl

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I took the rear screen out of my Beetle years ago (About 30 probably) and carefully put it down on the floor onto some cloth - or I think I did! And I ended up holding two small bits of glass, with the remainder a pile of shards on the floor. :o

I guess the glass must have been under a bit of tension and the slight "knock" as it touched the floor just released all the energy!

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I’m glad to say mine didn’t shatter, and is now tucked away in the garage loft so I don’t drop anything on it!

When I get a chance, and the when the garage has thawed out, I’ll see about taking the heat gun too it.

If that doesn’t work, particularly if I break the screen, I might be in the market for a new screen!

Thanks

Karl

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Despite the sub-zero temperatures in the garage, I decided to put my big boy pants on and do some work on the Herald.

The aim this week was to remove the roof, which meant taking out the rear side windows and the B-pillars.

The rubbers on the windows are hard, and perished, so I just cut them out, rather than trying to coax them out, and these were rapidly followed by the B-pillars.

The headlining on my car is shot, and when I tried to peel back the lining from the B-pillars it simply ripped. No big deal as a new headlining is on the To Do list anyway.

Having heard horror stories of tub spread on cars where the rear tub has been removed I decided to make up a spacer bar to go between the B-pillar mounts, from 12mm square tube and some spare nuts and bolts.

WqLcjO.jpg

It's nothing fancy, just a bit of welding, but should help keep the tub straight.

7TQ1ax.jpg

The roof actually came off fairly easily with a firm shove from both feet on the front of the roof, while I lay on my back.

Which leaves me with a pseudo convertible.

cCgqMC.jpg

MC2jZh.jpg

As part of the tub strip out, I removed the rear interior trim, which revealed the expected rot in the rear wing between the B-pillar and rear arch on both sides of the car.

hblGMW.jpg

FZdXrU.jpg

Now its a question of whether I repair this before I take the tub off or leave it until the tub goes back on after the chassis repairs.

My gut feeling is to do this ahead of removing the body to avoid any possible distortion issues which may later impact the fit of the tub to the chassis.

Karl

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