GLK 684T Spitfire 1500 Vermillion 1979 Damned Data Protection Act!

[JonLow]

I have written to the DVLA three times with V888 forms plus full explanations of my intentions, but each time I have been refused keeper details due to the Data Protection Act!!!!!

 

As an example, below is the first attempt accompanying letter :-

 

 

Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), 
Longview Road, 
Morriston, 
Swansea 
SA6 7JL

 

 

VEHICLE INFORMATION REQUEST

 

GLK 684T       Triumph Spitfire      1979      Red (Vermillion)

 

Current DVLA vehicle status :-

 

Registration   GLK 684T

✔ SORN

✗ No MOT

Expired: 29 October 2007

 

I was a previous owner of the vehicle from 10^th March 1986 until sold in 1994 or 1995, (kids forced sale for a sensible saloon). All relevant documentation was passed over to the new owner. I have only the first insurance note and the original purchase receipt, copies are attached.

 

I have also a few of the Triumph Sports Six Club valuation certificates if these may be of assistance. I have been a TSSC member for the last 31 years.

 

We have many photographs of the car at Triumph car rallies, with my wife and I onboard. These can sent in, or copied. However, I would hope the scanned photo taken as our wedding car, ought to show the sentimental value to us of saving the car from scrappage. 

 

The vehicle has apparently not been on the road since October 2007, presumably no longer fit for the road at that point. Assuming the car has been sitting in a garage, or even worse not under cover, then after more than 8 years, I am fearful that the car will be scrapped, or broken up sooner or later. Having been married in that car and travelling to many European car rallies in it, I am hoping to make contact with the current keeper to see if they still have it and if it is possibly saveable. I am due to retire in May next year and would be hopeful to have the car as a restoration project. You must appreciate the sentimental value to me of saving the car and so I do hope you will grant keeper contact details to me. This is a genuine application will no motive for causing the current keeper any problems, just hopeful to perhaps save the vehicle. I sold the vehicle to a couple who lived somewhere in the London area. The car must be lying rusting somewhere in a garage, if the car is saveable it would be nice to regain the car and use it as a retirement project.

 

I enclose copies of my wife and I with the car and a current Water Rates statement as proof of our address.

 

Regards,

 

Jon Low

12 Crescent Way

Chatham

Kent

ME5 9SY

Tel. 01634 301122

 

 

 

I am desperate to find out if the car is still around somewhere. Somebody, somewhere, must known someone who might know something! The car was sold only through the TSSC Courier magazine, bought for a lady, who brought along a Triumph repairer/garage man for a technical inspection. So surely somebody in one of the southern areas must be able to rack there brains for some sort of contact!

[dougbgt6]

You probably know all this but:

 

DVLA database says no MOT since 2007 but vehicle SORN.  SORN would have to have been renewed yearly until 2013:

 

"From 16-12-2013 it will no longer be necessary to renew a SORN every year as long as you remain the owner of the car.  But if you sell a car on a SORN, the new owner will need to register it to himself and declare his own SORN. The SORN does not pass from one keeper to another."

 

So from 2007 till at least the end of 2013 someone thought it worthwhile to renew the SORN. Would you do that if the car was beyond help? Probably not.  If the car was scrapped that's a change of owner and there wouldn't be SORN n the DVLA database.

 

There are quite a few members on here but to reach the biggest audience I would write a letter to the Courier.

 

There have been several of these "Does anybody know the whereabouts of my old car?" enquiries lately maybe the Forum/Courier should formalize these into a database/forum section. The club might then have some sway with the DVLA.

[Darren Groves]

If you haven't already, then you could try the Club Triumph forum as well and I am sure they'd publish a note in their magazine if you asked.

 

Good luck.

[Pete Lewis]

If you have kept the com number by chance you may find it on the club triumph cars data base but need to be a member to access the files .it lists cars com numbers if there a member showing you can e mail them

 

pete

 

Daren, like minds Ha !!!

 

p

[dougbgt6]

And if you don't have the COM number you could apply for a heritage certificate which will give this detail. I don't recall having to prove I owned my car when I applied. It will, however, cost you money!

[AidanT]

I wonder of its because you are not the current registered keeper? I didn't have a problem getting mine. Unfortunately I have not been able so far to contact any of the previous owners. They don't seem to have a web presence. I have asked the area AO of the area the car came from to see if anyone in that area knows anything but no luck so far

 

Aidan

[Guest]

Hello Jon.

 

Aidan is spot-on.

 

You MUST be the current keeper, if not you will fail in your task - as you have found out.

 

I submitted a V888 for my Vitesse and got a full printout of all the previous owners. On receipt of that, I then wrote to each of the PO's with an enclosed SAE and email address. Out of 5x enquiries (excluding the chap I purchased the car from) only received 1x response, but it came with a lot of information, knowledge and photographs of the car which of course is a bonus.

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

[JonLow]

Doug, Darren, Pete, Aidan & Richard,

 

 

Thanks for the very quick responses, much appreciated.

 

 

I have my race Spitfire Mk2/3 in SORN for the last 6 years. But I clean forgot about SORN being renewed annually until as Doug reminds to 2013. So you now give me hope it should still be rusting away somewhere! I have in fact put a shout out in the Courier and Forum, twice with no response at all. Bit annoying really as somebody must know something surely, as the car was sold that way.

 

 

As far as the TSSC car database, they are not in existence any more – had to deleted to the Data Protection Act. Arrgghh!

 

 

I have managed to find the last MOT certificate number issue for the car on a DVLA web page, (https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk). So I have also put an email message to an MOT Tester Forum requesting is it possible to trace the test station, from the last MOT certificate number. Maybe that will give an indication of the area it may be in. However, I assume the answer will be that such information is not available to me, due to - you guessed it, the Data Protection Act!

 

I have also put another message in for January Courier, plus Classic Car Weekly and Practical Classics via the TSSC advert options, with a £100 bounty payable for the first information leading to it's keeper. Whether that will give an incentive for people to make a few inquiries, I don't know.

 

 

But I am hopeful, from everybody’s responses so far, so keep up the good info guys and many thanks.

[dougbgt6]

Jon, not the TSSC car database, The Club Triumph car database. It's within their web page, I think it's called the Triumph register. You may have to join Club Triumph to get access.

 

http://club.triumph.org.uk/

 

 

Alternatively someone on here with joint membership could take a look?

[JonLow]

Doug,

 

Bit confused about the Club Triumph database. If the TSSC had to delete all records of their IVR forms - International Vehicle Register,due to the Data Protection Act, how do Club Triumph hold such a register of vehicle owners?

[Pete Lewis]

http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/cars/clubcars.cgi?printrecord=1041178928-8463.0

 

 

 

The tssc data base was run by indiviual model register sectretaries in amove to remove it from them and collate it onto a accessible data base it it failed to become possible

 

the club triumph data is accessible to members (I am one of many in numerous clubs)

It needs you logged on and the cars are listed by model by com number

down the righ side is search for......

 

 

 

 

 

if you get the com number

[dougbgt6]

Jon, not entirely sure! I stopped being a CT member this year and my car was certainly on their register at that point. The CT database is purely a record of the car with no other details of the owner, as I recall the database comprised, I think, owner name, (or forum id),  model & year, possibly registration, but no addresses.

 

TSSC and CT have different......... views on things. For instance CT are very tough on group events, cars going out in convoy, it all has to be arranged and confirmed with CT for insurance purposes. TSSC on the other hand seem far more relaxed and we convoy about ad hoc. Maybe CT have the same disinterest in Data Protection as TSSC do in group event insurance!

 

I think the simplest thing would be if someone on here with CT membership has a look in their database for your car. If it's there, the owner can be sent a private message.

 

Plus put out your "please help" message on CT forum it can't hurt!

[Clive]

Doug, the CT convoy thing has been sorted after representations to he MSA.The rules did apply to TSSC at the time, but the MSA rules turned out to be badly worded and not meant to cause issues for a few mates driving somewhere (I heard something about Jap car clubs organising road races or something, not sure if that is true but plausible)

As to data protection, I think it is a legal minefield, and luckily it seems rarely tested especially on enthusiast run clubs. 

 

But as to OP, as above, the comm no is what would be really helpful, but a plea on the various other fori may turn something up.

[dougbgt6]

Sorry Clive, I wasn't being contentious, just, ruminating.      And, as I said before, Jon can get the COM from the Heritage Certificate. But, it would be much easier if someone would go and have a look! We could confirm or deny if there was a car there that fits the bill.

[thescrapman]

You can't get a commission number from a heritage certificate as you need to provide the commission number to get one.

 

There is no cross ref to reg numbers possible,

 

Cheers

[dougbgt6]

Pardon?

 

I din't provide a comm number to get my heratige certificate.

 

"There is no cross ref to reg numbers possible"   No idea what this statement means!
 

[Guest]

Doug.

 

I think what scrapman (Colin ??) is saying is that a heritage certificate (HC) will not provide a comm number as a matter of course and that you need to supply that number for it to be recorded on said certificate.  That being said, it may be quoted on the certificate IF those details have been previously recorded via another enquiry. I know and agree it's a bit confusing.

 

What details did you provide to get your heritage certificate, other than registration number ??

 

I have a HC for my Vitesse, but that was given to me as part of the history bundle on purchasing the car - so I cannot quote from experience.

 

This could be a good opportunity to outline the requirements for obtaining a HC.

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

[Clive]

Doug, fret not. But thought that stuff needed to be put to bed. 

Re the comm number, if you don't have it it seems VERY difficult to get. probably because with it you can get a logbook in your name. 

 

Best bet may be if somebody has an inroad to the police database and can do a vehicle check, though I suspect that can be tricky

[Guest]

 

Best bet may be if somebody has an inroad to the police database and can do a vehicle check, though I suspect that can be tricky

 

 

Clive.

 

That action, these days, can commence criminal proceedings against the enquirer and it is most certainly a disciplinary offence with instant dismissal. So as you say "tricky".

 

The days of "Life on Mars" & "Ashes to Ashes" are sadly no longer !!

 

All the best.

 

Richard.

[Pete Lewis]

There are a out 21 1500 spits on the ct data , very few have added com number or reg and only 5 have photos with reg

but from the car listing you can email the member see if theres a photo etc.

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Just looked at the Heritage site and yes, they ask for the Com number so apologise for that. However, in my defence when I got mine, decades ago, all they wanted was make, model and registration.

[Clive]

Hmm, maybe best not to ask a friend in the police then!

 

Now, plan B. How about a freindly MoT tester? I think they can check VIN (comm on our cars) on their system??

[Colin Lindsay]

You'll just have to the same as you're doing here, advertise and raise the profile. I'm certainly no big fan of the DP Act but I understand it's there to stop our cars being cloned (and I remember talking to a 'gentleman' in the 1990s who, when he found out that I wanted a period number plate for a re-registered Triumph, informed me that he could get me any registration number I wanted, along with an MOT certificate.)

Keep plugging away, get it as widely known as possible with what little information you have, and someone will recognise it. 

Maybe a plug in the Spitfire Register would reach those not on this forum?

[Darren Groves]

I have obtained a VIN for a car from a motor factors by giving them the reg.

 

It was something considerably more modern, but the principle is the same I guess.

[JonLow]

Just an update on responses so far. Nothing new since these last posts, despite an advert with picture for the car going into the Courier, Practical Classics and Classic Car Weekly. I did also try a forum for the MOT testing stations. From there I did get one call back to explain that although I got the last MOT test number (No. 9002 3340 6317) from the DVLA website, there is no way of tracking that to an MOT test station. I was hoping to at least narrow down the area where the car was last tested at.

 

Seems I will never get to find the car, quietly rusting somewhere no doubt. I am hopeful it is not broken up at, as up until 2013 SORN status had to be renewed each year, so it was being registered up until then.

 

If I do not track the car soon, (£100 paid for owner/keeper contact) I will set about buying a restored 1500 for my retirement days. Knowing my luck it will turn up after I have lashed out and gone down that route!

 

Thanks all anyway guys.

 

Jon Low