Herald Gearbox Advice

[Eddie]

I am cleaning up and checking a Herald 13/60 gearbox that I bought from eBay.

 

Innards all seem to be in good condition and everything moves about nice and smoothly as it should.

 

The only potential problem that I have noticed is that there is a little play in the input shaft.

 

 

Is this normal, or should I fit a new ball race to eliminate the movement?

[Clive]

Probably be fine if not huge.

[Pete Lewis]

There is always float due to the bearing design, the shaft is supported in the flywheel spigot bearing

 

so then its controlled at both ends. And no wiggle when in car.

 

the main unseen wear points are the mainshaft spigot, supported by a small bearing inside the shaft you

are trying to wiggle and the layshaft spindle which can suffer needle pick up which dgrades the shaft surface.

[Eddie]

Thanks for the prompt response.

 

A supplementary question - how is that ball race lubricated?

 

Should it be packed with grease, or does that risk grease getting on to the clutch plates?

[Clive]

gearbox oil, it is behind the bellhousing.

[Pete Lewis]

the box you show must have an oil seal in the front cover ( lightly pressed into the  clutch housing) if your exiting happens to have a scroll then this cover and seal will need changing ,

 

theres also  gasket between the clutch  hsg and the front face and the two lower bolts need a copper washer and some seal in the threads.

as they piece the box below oil level.

 

Pete

[Eddie]

Thanks Pete.

 

According to the diagram on Rimmers website only the bottom bolt has a copper washer?

 

Also, there doesn't seem to be an oil seal as such - just the metal "scroll type" seal. Does this always have to be replaced?

[Clive]

2 types of bellhousing. Some scroll, some have a seal. You need the one with a seal fitted.

The Rimmers catalogue has its uses, but also its limitations!

[Eddie]

2 types of bellhousing. Some scroll, some have a seal. You need the one with a seal fitted.

The Rimmers catalogue has its uses, but also its limitations!

 

This is the bell housing that was attached to the gearbox.

 

 

 

It supposedly came from a Herald 13/60. Is it the wrong bell housing for the 'box, and what would happen if I used it?

[Pete Lewis]

cant see from the photo but the smooth ground shaft has to have a cover with a lip seal pressed inside, the scroll type has a very obvious helical scroll  on the shaft and no space for a lip seal ,

 

the nose cover with the seal its only a light tap fit in the bell housing , the bell housings are the same what ever seal /cover is fitted 

 

its  easy   removable 

 

 

so if youre cover has a seal inside its correct

 

 

Pete

[Eddie]

To be honest I am not sure what you mean by a scroll .

 

Hopefully these photos are a bit clearer - this is the centre of the bell housing - no sign of an oil seal.

 

And this is the input shaft.

 

[Pete Lewis]

Think senior moments are getting more frequent,

 

thats a scroll seal, dosnt have an oil lipseal

advantage is it wont ever wear out but will leak if parked on steep hill or if overfilled

 

my grey matter got the design back to front, and i dreamed of other manufacturer.

must try harder

 

Pete

[Eddie]

Think senior moments are getting more frequent,

 

thats a scroll seal, dosnt have an oil lipseal

advantage is it wont ever wear out but will leak if parked on steep hill or if overfilled

 

my grey matter got the design back to front, and i dreamed of other manufacturer.

must try harder

 

Pete

So this is the correct bell housing for the gearbox?

 

To be honest I would not be too worried if it only leaks if parked on a steep hill. The 'box that is on the car at the moment leaks all the time!

[Pete Lewis]

Yes, but refrase the bell housing to front cover , the cast heavy bit is common , its only the knock out cover that changes, the scroll is that helical groove you can see

inside the centre cover, works by the spining shaft works the oil back towards the gearcase

so always park 'up hill' Ha !!!

 

Peter

[Eddie]

Yes, but refrase the bell housing to front cover

Sorry - I don't understand.

 

Can I use this bell housing as it is, or do I need to change the centre?

 

I am used to 60s Fords that have an oil seal at the front of the gearbox casing so this is all new to me.

[Pete Lewis]

Yes you can certainly use it.

 

 

to back up just what it is , whats the gearbox number stamped on the top exposed face of the gear case ?

 

Just to one side of the top cover

 

pete

[Eddie]

whats the gearbox number stamped on the top exposed face of the gear case ?

 

Just to one side of the top cover

 

pete

 

It looks like CB 150805, but I am told that the "C" is actually a "G", so GB 150805

 

Thanks for all your help, Pete. It is much appreciated  .

[Pete Lewis]

Gb is herald 1200 commision numbers ,, is this is likey to be a 3 synchro box , I would expect the 13/60 to be 4 synchro

Some Data shows all heralds to be GE gearbox

Not GB there is no CB ref. This may be a reconditioners number

 

time to whip the top cover off and see if 1st is helical teeeth with sychro hub or its a straight cut tooth which slides into mesh ( EG, has crash 1st gear)

If your 1360 has sychro on 1st you may not want this GB prefix unit

 

sorry more questions than solutions

 

the joys of classic's

 

pete

[Eddie]

No, my 13/60 does not have synchro on 1st.

 

I didn't think it was supposed to?

[Pete Lewis]

thats Ok then , Im no guru on introduction dates/ etc

     certainly things like MKIV spitfire had 4 synchro

 

           so its was a bit of an assumed guess that the last range of herald would follow suit 

 

                    not trying to give a bum steer just thinking aloud about how things developed 

                           regards  Pete

[mishmosh]

syncro was first used on the mkiv spit.  All heralds have no syncro on first.  It is however a worthwhile upgrade and Fitchetts will sell you a box. Did id twenty five yrs ago and never looked back

[Eddie]

Thanks, I don't really use the car enough to make it worth buying a new all-syncro gearbox.

 

I have however spent some money on new seals and gaskets and a bush kit for the gear stick and remote, and I have now cleaned it all up and put it back together.

 

 

Thanks for all the helpful advice  .

[Pete Lewis]

On the conversion front , I reworked a spitfire IV   4 Sync. internals into an overdrive box on the Vit6 as the whine,   however characteristic it is got on my 

wick,   another one of the best mods to make for easier driving,   in design 1st was  an emergency low , most will pull away in 2nd and twas never a gear for main stream use , for places like starting off fully laden or a quick zip up Porlock hill or HardKnot

 with diff gearing ratio's highering the need for 1st became  more needed and 4 sync became the normal across the trade.

 

pete