Intermediate Drive Shaft Rubbing on Chassis

[1in10]

Evening All

 

I have a MK2 Vitesse, and I am rubbing my head, over this one, almost as much as the Drive Shaft, (pic enclosed).

Everything has been checked and I have even run the problem passed my mechanic who has suggested running it with a heavy load in the boot, but that was nbot really quite what I had in plan.

 

I bought the Chassis and rear spring as one, and even have pictures of the spring being fitted.

 

There appears to be no gap beteen the two and was hoping I had missed something, or if someone knows the measurrment from the hub to th wheel arch.

 

I have checked Mr Hayens.

 

Could anyone offer some help on this one, or I will have to finf some sand bags so I can take her out New Years day, thanks.

Richard

[Pete Lewis]

Is this with the car sitting on its tyres or , jacked up?

Seems your pic has not loaded

pete

[1in10]

Pete
 
I hope this thread finds you well, and seasons greetings, I hope you have enjoyed the peace and quiet as I have not written since the website went down.
 
The rubbing is all the time, and particularly when being driven, with the weight on the Drivers side.

 

I have down sized the pic, and hope you can see it.

 

By the way the Dead Man's weeeer weeer from last year, that we thought might be an earth problem, was a new faulty starter motor.

 

Thanks

Richard

[Steve P]

Hard to tell from that angle but that spring looks far too flat to me,should be more of an arch to it?

Steve

[JohnD]

A weak spring would raise the drive shaft away from the chassis rail.

 

Richard, there is a witness mark on the chassis?   This isn't rubbing on the spring shackle?  Which would be a weak spring!

And is it on both sides?

 

I'd say this as an extra-strong spring, forcing the wheels and drive shafts downwards.

If it's only one side, could be misinstalled spring, non-central, needs moving towards the side that fouls the chassis rail.

 

Otherwise the cure, and an excellent additional mod to a strong, stiff spring would be to put a spacer under the spring.  This will lower the car and raise the half shafts, without the extra load of a hundred weight of cement (or potatoes) in the boot.

 

John

[Pete Lewis]

Are you sure its arota flex spring , they are flatter I think, im with john check the centreing and the diff mounts and diff front palte and bushes, also for side to side discrepancies

and a drop plate is the cheapest and simplest solution if the cause is unfounded.

check you may need longer studs , if you go for a 1" plate you find the long studs foul the tin cover and makena wonderous racket.

 

happy xmas

[Casper]

I think I can count 8 leaves on the spring.  I don't know about the rotoflex but the only Herald springs with 8 were Courier 552 lb/in (likely) and Coupe (less likely) at 202 lb/in.

 

1600 CV used same as Herald (11).  1600 DL used a different 11 leaf spring.

 

I can't find the rotoflex data (ain't got a rotoflex  car) but surely it's in the WSM

 

And yes, pretty much every version of these cars used a different spring although I think Roto Vitesses used the same on both CV and DL

 

C.  

[JohnD]

 

The Courier, No.158, August 1993, p31  (TSSC magazine)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus some data from John’s “Guide to originality”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

     Eye

 

distance

 

Model

 

No.blades

 

Blade  thickness(ins)

 

Spring Rate  Lbs/in

 

Free Arc ht(mm)

 

Free

 

Fitted

 

GT6Mk 1  

 

8

 

0.25

 

305

 

? 

 

? 

 

?

 

Mk2-3

 

6

 

0.234

 

185

 

116

 

1022

 

1048

 

Vit Mk.1   

 

11

 

0.219

 

270

 

123

 

1012

 

1048

 

Conv.

 

11

 

0.219

 

270

 

131

 

1017

 

?

 

Vit2 all     

 

11

 

0.203

 

215

 

165

 

1012

 

1064

 

SpitI,II,III 

 

7

 

0.219

 

166

 

135

 

1035

 

1048

 

Spit  IV,

 

5

 

0.38

 

110

 

?

 

?

 

?

 

1500

 

(bottom two 0,25)

 

Herald Sal

 

11

 

0.219

 

270

 

136

 

1012

 

1048

 

Conv.

 

11

 

0.219

 

270

 

?

 

?

 

?

 

Coupe

 

8

 

0.219

 

202

 

?

 

?

 

?

 

Estate

 

7

 

0.313

 

510

 

88

 

1036

 

1051

 

CourierVan

 

8

 

0.313

 

552

 

?

 

?

 

?

 

Lowered, or 'cambered'

 

?

 

?

 

?

 

95

 

1035

 

1048

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

? = Not known.   Can anyone add these?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regret, no spring height data for Spit Mk4/1500

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Free arc is height of spring centre above ground when stood upright, off car.

 

 

 

 

 

Eye distance: “Free” is with spring in as above condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“Fitted” is on car

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NB: Fitted height:  For every 8mm increase, wheel camber goes 1 degree negative.

 

 

 

 

 

[1in10]

Thank everyone, it's a great help to have the Forum back.

 

I am hoping, it's a strong spring, and that it can be evened with a spaced, although this alone sounds like a job in itself, so I don't think she will be going to the New Years day ball this year.

 

Thanks for the reference of the article to the stats above, as I was fortunate enough to get the back issues of the Courier from my Wife one Christmas.

 

I'll print it off and try to get under the car on the days after Christmas, if I can still squeeze under it.

 

Hope you all have a good one.

[KevinR]

If it was a GT6, with telescopic shock absorbers fitted, then the drive shaft should never be able to rub on the chassis if the correct length shocks have been used.

 

If you have the telescopic conversion kit fitted, then it should have been supplied with the correct "short" shocks to stop the drive shaft rubbing, but many of the kits are supplied with shocks that are too long and allow the drive shaft to rub the chassis when the suspension is at full extension.

 

If the car is still fitted with lever arm shocks, then they may or may not stop the driveshafts from rubbing - it may be worth getting a telescopic conversion kit.

 

If the joint between the lower wishbone and the bearing housing upright has seized (and they do with monotonous regularity), then the suspension could be non functional and effectively seized with the drive shaft very close to the chassis and hence the rubbing.

 

You need to check the clearance between the chassis and the drive shaft when the car is sitting on the ground, and not jacked up with the wheels in the air.

You need to make sure that the gap is even on both sides.

[Gary Flinn]

A MK2 Vitesse Spring has 11 leaves and is a different shape to the normal swing axle Herald/Vitesse Spring, looks like you have the wrong spring fitted.

 

The outer Spring clamp on a Mk2 Vitesse and the Mk2/Early Mk3 Gt6 is a wraparound type clamp so the Rotaflex coupling doesn't catch it, both the clamps shown on the photo are the U type with the bolt holding in them place?

 

I'm suprised your rotoflex couplings haven't been damaged?

 

If you need a Secondhand Vitesse spring I've got one you can have?

 

Merry Xmas!!  

[Gary Flinn]

Eye to Eye Length should be 1014mm unfitted and the height from the underside of the bottom leaf to the Floor when the spring is resting on the floor in its normal position is 165mm. 

 

go to Canley Classics Website to have a look at the Mk2 Rear Suspension and the rear spring leaf clamps (Can't download the pic its too big?)

[thescrapman]

That is not a rotoflex spring. So really should not be used on a rotoflex car.

 

You could "bodge" it by removing the spring and wrapping the clamp sides under the spring leaves to provide the clearance.

 

Or buy the correct spring.

 

Cheers

[JohnD]

Glad the stats heloed, but doubt if you could read them!

Never found a good way of posting that information on a website.

has to be a picture and this blasted site with its measly pic allowance won't let me.

The pic is only 46kB and it's "too big"

 

Jhn

[Gary Flinn]

Glad the stats heloed, but doubt if you could read them!

Never found a good way of posting that information on a website.

has to be a picture and this blasted site with its measly pic allowance won't let me.

The pic is only 46kB and it's "too big"

 

Jhn

 

Had the same problem John trying to post the Canley rear suspension drawing, shrunk it to 15Kb but still too large?

[1in10]

Gents

 

Thanks for all the responses, and I am hoping this is a stupid question as I would not like to break presedence.

 

I have checked both Canley Diagrams, for both the Rotoflex, (rubber donut), and the Rear Suspension (shocks diagram on the left).

 

But is there any chance you can have both Rotoflex donust, and Shocks at the same time.

 

Richard

[Clive]

On a vitesse.......No. 

Unless you fit aftermarket extensions for the shocks, sold by the club and others. And requires a special shock absorber....

 

The vitesse uses lever arm shocks to avoid entanglement, the rotoflex GT6's use a shock mount welded to the inner wheel arch (with a special shock, not same as spit etc)

[Gary Flinn]

I've just completed this conversion myself, have a look on the Koni Rear Dampers post on this section for details of what's involved?

 

I'm hoping to get my Refurbished spring fitted over the Christmas break, weather permitting    

[1in10]

Popped round to see her last night, and she has 11 leaves, so Mk2 for sure, phew.

 

I also have Spax Shocks fitted, and they appear to be fitted well.

 

There are witness marks on both sides I noticed, which would indicate the tight spring theory, and can't honestly see why these are rubbing.

 

I have read your thread, thanks, and think there may be something more behind this, as I may need a bit more clearance.

[Casper]

 

 

she has 11 leaves, so Mk2 for sure, phew.

 

Not necessarily, Sherlock:

 

Model

Stanpart No.

Blades/ leaves

(#)

Thickness

 

 (ins)

Spring rate (Lbs/in)

Free Arc ht (mm)

Free

 (mm)

Fitted

 

(mm)

Vit Mk.1

305945

11

0.219

270

131

1017

1048

Vit Mk 2 All

308485

11

0.203

215

165

1012/1014

1064

Herald 1200 DL to GA 223681

303727

11

0.219

270

136

1012

1048

Herald DL after GA 223681

305945

11

0.219

270

136

1012

1048

Herald 12 CV to GA80000

303727

11

0.219

270

?

?

1048?

Herald CV after GA 80000

305945

11

0.219

270

?

?

1048?

 

May need to measure a leaf

 

Con

 

Similar posting problem to John, but different !

[Gary Flinn]

I doubt you have a Mk2 Vitesse spring fitted with those standard outer Leaf 'U' Clamps with bolts?

 

The outer Leaf clamps on the Mk2 Vitesse are thick steel wrap around type, I'd post a picture if I new how to shrink it enough!! 

 

The profile of the spring is also different to suit the Lower Wishbones fitted with the Rotaflex Mk2 suspension

 

If you go on the Club Triumph Website you will see some pictures of when I refurbished an original Mk2 Vitesse Spring, if you do a search in the Herald/Vitesse Section you should find pictures, it's in the "What have you done to your Triumph" posts, around page 95, you should be able to make out what I'm on about with regards to the Leaf clamps? 

[KevinR]

 I'd post a picture if I new how to shrink it enough!! 

 

 

No need to shrink it, just post it in your gallery (link at the top of the page) and then link it in to you post.

 

See http://forum.tssc.org.uk/index.php?/topic/11-picture-size/ for how to do it.

[Gary Flinn]

Kevin

 

I've managed to download the Spring picture to the Gallery under my name, how do I link it to this Post?

 

Gary

[KevinR]

It's simple, on a PC, I havn't yet cracked if for a tablet as there is no "right click" on a tablet. 

1.  Right click on the image in the gallery and there will be a popup with four size options (thumbnail, small, medium, large) and "direct link to this image file".

2.  Hover over the "direct link to this image file" and right click. 

3.  On the dropdown menu, select "Copy shortcut" - you've now got the URL of the image stored in your paste buffer.

4.  Return to your posting, and at the point where you want to insert the image, click the "image" button at the top of the text entry window (11th icon along on the 2nd row)

5.  When the popup box appears, paste the shortcut copied at step 3 into the URL box.

6.  Click OK, and the image will appear.

 

If it is too big, try the same trick with the "small", "medium" or "large" versions available when you right click on the image in the gallery.

If you want to use the "small", "medium" and "large" versions, then left click on one of them and do the "right click, copy shortcut" stuff in the next window.

 

This is the "direct link" version

 

This is the small version

[JohnD]

 

Hope this works.

JOhn