Engine oil

[euan douglas]

I'm sure this has been done to death but I can't find a concise answer!  What is the best, reasonably priced, 20/50 engine oil to use in the GT6?

I see the Club shop do a couple, is Castrol OK or Millers or what?  I presume that sold by Halfreds is not the best, or am I wrong?

All thoughts gratefully received, especially where to buy it!

Euan

[dougbgt6]

I had a blown head gasket last year and currently running with Halfords for a few hundred miles, then upgrading to Millers. Hopefully the Halfords will depart with any residue crud from the system. Halfords is cheap and OK, smells and looks like Duckhams from the olden times. Millers is good and more expensive than Halfords. Millers went up to silly prices but now, I think, they have come to their senses and come back to earth which is still three times Halfords.

[Colin Lindsay]

Castrol GTX works for me, Tescos were selling it earlier this year at under half price.

[Clive]

Very difficult to answer.

Partly depends on how you use the car.bif never driven hard, halfords will be ok. the club offering likewise.

Re miller's, there are several varieties. I use the 20/60css, which is excellent but the car does get used for long hard trips (the RBRR being one).

So I would suggest decide on what usage, and take it from there.

[Qu1ckn1ck]

I have read reams about our engines requiring an engine oil with high ZDDP content - has anybody any views ?

[Clive]

Yes, the ohv engines do need high zddp...

[AndyTV8]

I've mentioned on previous threads.... current best all-rounder has to be Classic Oils Heritage:

 

https://www.classic-oils.net/Classic-Oils-Heritage-20W50

 

Mineral 20/50, no smoke-screen about zddp levels (clearly stated on the label!) and at a decent price

 

...... Andy

[AndyTV8]

Forgot to add.... on the price question, if you buy 1x 5l at shows or order 4x5l online that is just over £15 a pop, in my book that is great value compared to many other offerings!

..... Andy

[Guest]

Hello.

Late last year I wrote a detailed article concerning ZDDP within oil for another classic car club magazine. Knowledge of the article became widespread and it was supplied to other classic car clubs for their newsletter inclusions. Such was the spread of the article I had to place it under Copyright.

A number of TSSC members also asked for a personal copy and I was happy to supply as requested.

As the ZDDP / what oil is best thread has raised its head again on this Forum I thought it may be prudent to pop the article on here for all to read.

SCS are now official stockists in E&W Sussex for Classic Oils Heritage 20W/50. Penrite 20W/50 and Castrol EP90. All these oils go to our club meets and numerous people collect direct from me when not attending SCS events should you reside in the Sussex counties.

I hope the article is of interest.

Regards.

Richard.

Zinc in Engine Oil - Copyright Document 2017.odt

[Guest]

Hello.

 

Sorry, forgot to add the photo of the followers and the Heritage 20W/50 oil.

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

[Gadgetman]

Excellent article, thanks for sharing.

[euan douglas]

Richard

Thanks from me too  -  an excellent article and I'll be following your advice.

Euan

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 Why is the author promoting old tech oils?  Only an unenlightened fool would put 20w50  oil in a small chassis engine car engine.  10W50 or 10W40 fully synthetic is a much better choice.

 

PAO synthetics (Ester) are not mentioned, yet surpass old tech.

 

Just because you read something on the internet does not make it fact.

 

Cheers,

Iain.

 

 

 

[dougbgt6]

Iain, you can only go by your own experience and my experience, on here, is that Richard is not an "unenlightened fool". Perhaps you would like to give us some facts rather than just telling us it's better.

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 You are correct. It is not correct to call anyone a fool. Apologies, It was wrong for me to say so.

 

 

Iain.

[KevinR]

From my research, I've come to the conclusion that most modern oils are unsuitable for our old cars, and I'll be sticking with traditional 20W/50 for general day to day use.

 

The manufacturing tolerances within the engine are just not up to using a modern oil with  the associated thinness and detergent qualities.

 

Similarly, I wouldn't dream of using an "old fashioned" oil in my modern engine, which has been designed from scratch to use a modern thin synthetic oil.

[Clive]

It is complicated.

Kevin has made a very valid point, using a modern oil in an old engine could be very problematic unless the internals of the engine are very clean. (almsot all the engines I have had apart have had an inch of tar-like sludge in the sump, a decent modern oil would start t break this up, terrible for the engine.

Also, modern oils, as mentioned  a lot earlier, are desperately low on ZDDP as modern engines just do not need it, unlike ours.

 

Flipside, a good synthetic oil is about as good as it gets. Not at all cheap, but excellent. John Kipping/canleys used mobil 1 and that was their recommendation if you wanted a long-lived 1500 engine that was driven hard. And as Iain has mentioned, there is a massive difference between ester oils and other synthetics.

And the top oils are available in many grades, the one I would use would be a 10-60, but they are generally £70+ a tub. Ouch. And then a zddp additive would be needed too.

 

Of course, many of our cars have an easy life and don't get heavy use, so a top spec oil isn't required. All very much a case of you pays your money etc

 

And yes, I have been the victim of my own stupidity. I was running a 1500 engine, and it was driven hard. Mid afternoon at Goodwood on my first trackday I suffered massive oil pressure loss and a spun bearing (100mph/5500rpm on the pit straight, all very sudden) After that incident (and a significantly lighter wallet) I fitted an oil cooler and tried VR1. Then the millers CSS20/60 which was  much much better. However, if I was just pottering about, any branded 20/50 would be adequate.

 

Currently I have a slant 4 Triumph 1850 engine in my Toledo and run that on a synthetic 10/40. It is rather more modern than "our" engines and is fine, plus has no need for high ZDDP levels. My Zetec spit uses a 5/40 synthetic, 5/30 is the Ford recommendation but I wanted a little more viscosity to cope with the thrashing the car regularly gets (trackdays etc, no stupidity on the roads). The Spitfire we recently bought has a very fast road engine, including a 290 degree cam and roller rockers. It is due an oil change, and I will be using the millers CSS 20/60, along with a Mann double-valved oil filter.....

 

Just my take.

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 I have just ordered two oil sample analysis kits from millers.

So I can show the effect of lower viscosity oil on our engines, I know two is not going to prove all, but will buy more.

 

20W is no good for getting oil around the engine when cold. Oil flow is very important. 10W will give lower pressure as the flow is greater.

 

50 mineral oil is surpassed by 40 Ester oils on all the specs I have seen. Also, at fast road speeds will  also use less power.

 

"mineral" oil will lose the top rating when it is starting to get worn, while Ester will not, as it started as a high "grade" in the first place.

 

ZDDP provides a protection when the boundary layer breaks down. If the oil film does not break down then ZDDP serves no purpose.

 

My car is a daily driver and I drive about 300 miles a week, After the first test I will start to use Ester 0W40 oil and if results are good will go to 0w30 to prove the point.

 

Cheers,

Iain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 If you want the facts about motor oil and some time to read. Click the link below..

 

 (The info on this blog was updated on August 17, 2017

 

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

 

Hope it helps you chose a better oil.

 

Cheers,

Iain.

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 If you have managed to find the time to read the above; At least two things should apparent.

1) ZDDP is a myth.

2) 20W50 is a very bad choice.

 

I recommend this oil:

 

Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 Fully Synthetic Engine Oil - 6 Litres: 5L + 1L  £49.90 from Opie oils.

 

It scores in the top five for protection, and even though a little thick, is a far better choice than any 20W50 oil could hope to be.

 

So, dougbgt6, that's my case.

 

Cheers,

Iain.

 

So,

[dougbgt6]

It's full of unsubstantiated claims, opinions and little science.

 

He claims ZDDP is a myth based on the results of his tests. Then he says:

 

"The details of the specific test equipment set-up I developed, as well as the details of the specific test procedure I developed, that provide the accuracy and repeatability that I demand, are proprietary information." 

 

He gives us reams and reams of print and results of his tests but, won't tell us specifically how the test works?

 

The bit that does it for me is the LONG piece, 700+ words, on electronic ignition vs traditional points. He doesn't like them, they break down "more often than you think"  and you can't fix them on the road side. Well, not unless you've got your old points in a plastic bag in the glove box!

[Clive]

I tried reading that blog. Far too long and wordy, an as Doug points out, lacking in detail in many ways. He keeps claiming how qualified he is, but doesn't back it up. 

 

As to ZDDP being a myth? jog on.....

[dave.vitesse]

There is some evidence that if the oil seals have been subjected to mineral oil for a long period of time the changing over to synthetic oil may cause the seals to loose their form. The same thing happens to brake cylinder seals.

 

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

Sorry Ian I went to sleep halfway through

Its just far too long and protracted diatribe about yawn what

 

pete

.

[Clive]

I had a Google about. Seems this info has been rehashed many times over the years. But it seems there was very good evidence that zddp helps prevent scuffing at high loads when the oil film has given up the ghost. And rather less anecdotal evidence that it isn't needed with modern oils (is no problems with my car sort of evidence)

 

Until an oil lab produces the figures to overturn the need for zddp I will be keeping it in my oil (on my ohv engine, I understand it isn't needed on ohc type engines)