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2040 IC engine ban....here comes electric


Pete Lewis
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Theres a lot needs sorting before all new combustion engines are banned

 

so take a look at range, we built fully battery trucks in 1970s with a 40mile range

 

its not increased that much today

 

how do you charge it, take loads of terraced houses with 3 or 4 cars per house

where to plug in and plug in whose socket ??

nothing said about motorcylces or 44 ton trucks that keep us supplied

whats the environmental load of producing batteries and disposing

never mind where is all the electric going to come from

 

unless its a hybrid any distance is unachievable

these ideas are based on what, diesels are good now they are not

same tripe as crap spead and butter , suddenly butter is better, even macdonalds have swapped to use butter

are we being conned by the do good brigade, who just cause chaos.

 

Bit like corporate seagulls , fly in squawk a lot shite all over you and fly off

and we have to clean up the mess

 

you might guess im not convinced

pete

 

 

then the environment pressre on producing batteries and transporring them around the world

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Lol yes I too was watching with interest...... 

Firstly: where does the electricity come from? Not our creaking and outdated infrastructure, that's for sure. We'll be tied to the mainland for power as the green brigade won't permit nuclear, nor will they allow our ancient polluting oil and coal fired generators to run near where they live....

Secondly - how long does the battery take to recharge? I can imagine lines of cars all plugged in while bored drivers sit for hours over a coffee..... or fight over the single charging unit in their local main street. 

Thirdly: they DID of course have to use a cyclist - some guy Bainbridge or other - to gloat over the car owners on the BBC. Note how he formed a third lane between two lines of traffic as he drove down the road, happily filming it on his headcam...

Fourthly: are we as classic car owners (and I'm talking REAL cars here, not 3-month old plastic fantastics from Japan with 200 miles on the clock that flood our local shows) going to be given any leeway as custodians of history, or are we going to be penalised out of existence?

AND FINALLY: this is all to meet our climate change quotas. How green we'll look, and how green they all really are.... it's a drop in the ocean compared to other countries that strip the rain forest and pump out pollution all day long with no regard for EU regulations. I'm just tired of our country being the fall-guy for the World's woes and rushing to embrace the hair shirt of regulation again and again.

I don't honestly think 2040 will worry me TOO much personally, but I'd like to think future generations are going to get a fair shake and not be hammered unfairly by the "I live 300 yards from work and my local wine bar, so can walk, cycle or take a taxi" brigade.

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You guys need to keep up!

 

Bog standard Nissan Leaf, range 225 miles

Expensive Tezsla range 330 miles.

 

Recharging? Every motorway service station I been in recently has at least two. When I first saw one, I thought, overnight stay? No, twenty minutes.

 

Yes, I can see a flex out of many doors, and across many pavements, the rate of hip fractures will sky rocket. And at the projected rate of growth of electric cars the entire output of Hinckley Point nuclear power station, if it's ever built, will be consumed by 2040.

 

John

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I thought the leaf was still quoted at 150 Mike range with extended option?

I had the use of an A3 EV 18 months ago, a wanted to like it but was very disappointed - one of those disappointments was that I only got 17 miles before the petrol kicked in, that was half what I had been told.

 

The tech will get there, although I expect the battery-manufacturing impacts will be ignored

 

....... Andy

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You mean the carbon footprint of a battery pack, Andy?

That makes a brand new Tesla look like  a three year old diesel when carbon's considered?

 

But supercapacitors may be the power storage answer, not batteries, and that will be the application that really gets graphene off the ground.

John

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At least petrol should still be available for our classics as hybrids are not included in the 2040 ban.

 

2040 brings us in line with France. In Norway it's 2025. I guess this will focus technological development and push electric and electric hybrid cars into proper mass production.

 

Gully

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You mean the carbon footprint of a battery pack, Andy?

That makes a brand new Tesla look like  a three year old diesel when carbon's considered?

 

 

Yep, that's the one John...... it's a point often bypassed - agree that it is the other storage options that could alter the landscape in the future, the tech will get there

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I read somewhere the ban would include hybrids. Can;t find it now though.

 

Reinfrastructure, I don't think the existing network will cope at all. Maybe with a few extra power stations (how long to build? 10 years plus?) Mainly because demand won't be spread evenly over 24 hours. There is likely to be a late afternoon/early evening surge when people get in from work and plug their cars in overnight. Just at the same time the current (ha ha) surge happens from people doing the normal stuff when they get home.

 

As to motorway services, it takes a couple of mins to refuel at present. If charging takes 10X as long, plus people won't want to sit with their cars so won't leave immediately the thing is "full". Plus if cars have a circa 200 mile range in real life, the entire car parks will need charging points.

 

As to charging at home, most towns/cities have oodles of terraced houses when you are lucky to park withing a ten minute walk (Brighton is much worse than that) so will the council be installing 20,000-30,000 roadside points?

 

The other issue is that perl and diesels will not be sold in the 10+ years leading up to 2040, as people will be so worried about resale values. Unless there are some sort of assurances that dino fuel will still be easily available and not priced out of the market....

 

Anyway, I will be early 70's by then, hopefully active and hopefully still using my spitfire. The current engine will have 150K+ on it from its recent rebuild at existing usage. Think I need to buy a spare......  or maybe there will be availablity of electric conversions by then.Who knows.  

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All valid points indeed. I have no doubt that some time in the future, electric cars will be the thing. However, I've just read a statement that the power supplies to individual roads/ streets will not support the extra demand if every house has a charger. How do they cope with regards to aircon or heating in Winter? Also, where we live we have a road feature that tends to demand more power usage, it's called "hills". Lots of them. I know about regen etc. but the hills are still there. One final thing, Teslas are a fantastic car, but have you looked at the price? Or is that an added benefit, get the likes of me off the road? Rant over, as you were.

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A mere hundred years ago, almost everything ran on horses.   My garage was a coach house, and had a stable at the back.

In 1917 there were two and half million horses in the UK, and about 40 million people, and the growth of horse transport in London led to crisis predictions of streets deep in horse poo.

In fact we're deep in car poo.

 

Things CHANGE!

All this moaning about 'how will electric cars run up hills?' and 'where will I charge my car?'    Solutions will be forced on us, by the circumstances and developments - perhaps you will have to park your car to charge and then wakk home - shock horror - or you will commute on an electric bike.    No one knows, but it will be different.

 

John

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I do enjoy change, it holds no fears. What I do find that, living well out in the sticks and a good hour with a rare, clear run, from the nearest motorway, coupled with an antiquated local railway (you would NOT believe what the rolling stock in use is!) I find that we tend to be disregarded (says he politely) with transport decisions, the assumption from the authorities being that we are all in the same position. No doubt "Range Anxiety" of electric cars will be sorted, too.

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Last spring I was at a local event and there were electric cars from both Renault and VW there. As I know the salesman for one of the 2, no names to protect the innocent, we discussed the whole subject at length. Even he felt that the carbon footprint to manufacture an electric car was worse than a fossil job. 

About a month ago my neighbour bought a Renault Zoe for local use, they are retired and mainly stick close to home, so an electric is fine. They have kept their diesel car for their visits to family in the south . Travelling from Normandy to the Var even with 30 minute recharges would require calling in at virtually every second service station.

When I asked about air con he replied it does have it but using it reduces range one heck of a lot.

Where I live most towns, and even some villages, have a couple of charging points as do supermarkets. When we were away in Brittany last month we chatted about being on holiday with an electric car and the need to charge them. I said that hotels would have to start installing points. I decided to look around the hotel underground car park we had parked in and yes there were a number of points installed.

Batteries will continue to improve and other forms of fuel will come along as well.

Electricity generation is also a pollution generator. Germany has already said it is getting out of nuclear power but buys power from us here in France where over 70% is nuclear. Just pushing the pollution in front of someone else's door. 

I would like to see a proper study of which was less polluting in the long term, a new electric car or to continue to use an existing fossil job.

You won't notice but there is a gap after typing the above while I went, on foot, the 100 metres each way,to buy my bread. The neighbour was just getting their Zoe, out and it was making a noise as if a fan was running. It wasn't the air con but a device that ran until the car went above 30 Kph to warn pedestrians there was something behind them.

 

I'm going to continue driving my old Herald and the new diesel I've just bought whatever they decide here in France and by 2040 I think I will be 'recycled' as compost... :unsure: 

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It makes me laugh, the government is so concerned about air pollution that they're going to ban petrol and diesel engines. Yet they intend to build a third runway at Heathrow, which for years has been in breach of EU air quality regulations. Still, we're leaving the EU, so that's alright.

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It makes me laugh, the government is so concerned about air pollution that they're going to ban petrol and diesel engines.

 

If they are that concerned about air pollution they should shut up....I'll let you think it through <_<

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The current estimate in the "quality" press seems to be 10 extra power stations, (which will have to be nuclear), to meet the additional demand. I can't see that one happening quickly, or people queuing to have one in their backyard.

 

Then there is the question of whether domestic wiring can cope with a charger in every home, the infrastructure costs, to say nothing of the theives who will be glefully driving around your neighbourhood in the small hours nicking all the charging cables to weigh in as scrap.

 

What we need to remember here is that this is a shameless bit of virtue-signalling from Michael Gove, who with his chum Chris Wilshaw, wrecked our education system on his watch, causing thousands of demoralised teachers to leave the profession, and is now on the loose creating havoc at environment. (This is, lest we forget, the man who earlier this year stabbed his own colleague in the back to launch his own leadership ambitions, which says a lot about how far you can trust his judgement).

 

Two beneficiaries though will be the Scots and the Cornish. It will take that long to get there on holiday in your Nissan Leaf with all the charging stops that it will be easier and cheaper to fly abroad, so it will be so much quieter without all the tourists...

 

Steve C

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France is 'cushty', as they had the Messmer Plan in the late 70s, to build 90(?) nuclear poeer stations in the next twenty years, which they did, nearly.   We haven't had a new nuclear power staion in the last thirty years, because the politicians of all colours were scared of promoting it, in the face of ignorant and complacent opposition.    The Greens are a power in Germany, and they've closed down all their NPs!     They were a bit nearer to Chernobyl.

 

And derekskill, I know what you mean about poor public transport.     The same politician who has cancelled the greatest boost to the "Northern Powerhouse", electrification of the railways, has allowed the next step in the Crossrail project to proceed.  Crossrail 2 will put high speed rail across the south of, not Manchester, but bloody London.  Oh, and right past his own constituency too.      If sucessive governments had spent as much on the North (North Wales-Manchester-Leeds-Sheffield-Humberside) as they have on London in the last twenty years, the the region wouldl have benefited by £59 BILLION.    Spent on improvement, not on votes in Parliament, to prop up a dying govenrment.  Bah! Humbug!

 

John

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  • 2 months later...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/10/13/oysters-mussels-produce-ridiculous-levels-gasses-causing-climate/

Put a mussel in your tank, eh? If they emit more gas than cows they must be close in quantity to the people I work with, and that's a lot.

"Do you have an Oyster card sir?"

BTW did you see the sea of floating plastic rubbish that came from Guatemala? There's me out sweeping up leaves and binning litter from the nearby auction yard, and this lot is washing about?? We should collect it and recycle it into Japanese Sports cars... :)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5002084/Oceans-choked-plastic-bottles-bags-rubbish.html

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MX5s perhaps? :lol:

It's cows belching that does it, they have four stomachs and regurgitate from one to another. :wacko:  We should eat them to extinction and the mussels!  After all, it almost worked for cod, till the EU stopped us.  Still, we can have another go at the cod shortly!

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