** ON TO THE NEXT BIT ** Nose to Tail - 1972 Spitfire MkIV restoration upgrades!!

[Badwolf]

Pete. The answers to the questions in your list are as follows:

....... very likely to be small rubber sliver syndrome small bits of rubber  hose get cut off when you insert fittings into the fuel hoses, these float back and forth and end up jammed in the back of the float needle valve , and starvation under power - Not tried yet

do check after using choke that the nasty linkage has returned the dropped jet back to its adjusting nut , a prod with a finger cures this - give the base of the jet assy a poke - Were/are the plugs all sooty ??? - Yes jet returned when poked, choke cable was set too short and not pushing linkage all the way back in... now adjusted. All the plugs were sooty , they were cleaned before taking her out for the 'kangaroo petrol trip', so it looks like the choke cable setting could be the problem.

any rota with a rivet in the sweep blade is probably useless - Yes, the rotor has a rivet in it

check the rotor cap brush is actually contacting the rotor - The carbon brush in the centre top of the distributor cap is worn flush with the surround and may not be making very good contact

make sure the top of the coil ht socket is clean ...not green - Nice and bright, not green

dont use spark plugs with an R in the suffix - The plugs don't have an 'R' in the suffix (NGK BP6ES)

some condensers can have little inside the canister and fail , you cant tell without cutting it up - if it  misses/ back fires a bit expect condense - Not replaced yet as I don't want to put to many changes into the mix and not know what was causing the problems

I will clean up the plugs and try over the weekend and report back. This may help somebody else who has similar problems.

Thanks

 

[Pete Lewis]

Whilst the rotor may be ok I would get a red one if its lucas or a non riveted one if its delco

 

The 

Simple test for a rotor arm is remove cap.

Hold ht king lead 10mm above rotor

Crank engine over, spark should not jump to the rotor

If it does the rotor is earthing via the rivet down to the spindle

Its a well documented failure that can be very erratically behaved.

The problem with condensers is if you cut one open they should have around 3mtrs of waxed foil inside

Some only have 300mm,  distributor doctor says often those with orrange leads, weve cut a orange open and it was fine

But it had failed .

If that helps 

 

Pete

 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

On 9/5/2017 at 1:28 PM, Badwolf said:

 Do you know if there is a great difference between UPOL professional (metal etch) and UPOL acid#8 (acid etch)? The professional looks to be about half the price of the acid.

The price is usually a good pointer; if it's more expensive, you'd expect there to be a reason!! I had to run out to the garage and see what mine was, and it's a tin of Acid#8 from a few years back. I also found an aerosol tin of etch primer by Autotek, never heard of them and don't even remember buying it.

 

That's an excellent price for your Apollo, I may start looking for one now that you've put the notion into my head...

[Badwolf]

Colin. The Apollo looks in good condition. Not tried it yet. It has previously been used for emulsion paint but looks fairly clean.  I will strip it down in due course and get any residual paint out.  Had a word with someone a Frost's about POR15. Looks interesting but appears to set like concrete!!  Thought it might spray but not so sure if it wouldn't set solid in the gun.  Their Red top coat look a nice colour, very similar to Signal Red and the blurb gives the impression that the finished paint is bullet proof!!

Pete. Took her out for a quick run, mainly to check the choke and warm up prior to changing the oil.  Running much better but still lacks power and plugs still sooty. I have backed off the mixture and is now set at one full turn down instead of two. Not that trial and error is a good way of doing this. I have found my old Gunson''s Colourtune so may give that a try. Unfortunately the sealing washer is missing, but salvaged one off an old spark plug.  I was never very good with these things so I'm not convinced it will work. I tended to leave the tuning of the carbs to the professionals but these days if it doesn't plug into a computer they don't want to know.  I have also put the old distributor cap on as it has considerably more carbon in the the center than the one that was off. Little by little it get better. By the way, what is the difference between a standard rotor arm and a red one?

[Pete Lewis]

Its red !!!!

Many aftermarket have the dreaded rivet in the sweep plate, 

 Red were developed with good insulating properties , but they onlt are made for Lucas dizzy 

if you have a cap ith fixed brush and springy thing on the rotor itsa aDelco   no red ones  made for these and by design dont suffer the 

Ht  Leak across the rivet  like the cheap lucas ones did.

 

Pete

  

[Badwolf]

It is a delco, it says it on the side of the distributor on the side next to the engine. I notice that P*dd*cks do a red delco version. As you say, its probably just red instead of black. By the way, it might be a stupid bit of reasoning but if a condenser has the required amount of waxed foil inside, should it not weigh heavier than the rubbish version with little inside? Only question is what is the optimum weight?

[Badwolf]

Ok. Leaving the question of the 'kangaroo juice' engine aside for the moment, can anyone help on the fitting of a radio. It came out easily but will it go back...!!!??? I can't remember the easiest way to do it. Its one of those that pulls out of its housing for security, but it won't because of the gear stick and all the angles are wrong to get it in with the 'H' console support and fitting plate. Any help as ever, greatly appreciated.

[Badwolf]

The radio problem has been sorted for the time being. I knew it was difficult to put in due to it being one that comes out of the casing but I had forgotten how I fitted it all those years ago.

[Pete Lewis]

What ever make , good or bad  rivet or not foil or not ,

If its runing fine they are working ok

If you get things  like it will idle but reving makes it spit and pop then think condender

If its running but has some erratic misfires think rotor

Of it wont start  think   time for strong tea

Pete

 

 

 

 

[Badwolf]

I think things are progressing fairly well considering my lack of mechanical experience.  Just need to sort out the sooty plug bit, I think mixture, then rotor/condenser. Swapped the dubious looking distributor cap for an old one which looks in better condition and adjusted the mixture one full turn leaner and will try when it stops raining (if ever).  I do have another rotor and a brand new condenser so will put those in as needed. By the way, is the type of oil in the dash pots significant. Read in one article to use 3 in one (that's what is in at the moment), another says 20w50 engine oil.  Which is correct if either?

 

[Pete Lewis]

If you are using 3 in one .....!!!!!!!     thats uterly mad  the thing is a damper its there to give you rich mix on acceleration

The base oil is a straight sae 20  not so readily available so 20/50 engine oil is the easiest to use

3in 1 is so thin it offers not resistance  imagine how cats pee thin it goes when its hot

Get it out   and refill with some engine oil,

Pete

 

[Badwolf]

Pete. Ok... calm down.. dash pots cleaned out and refilled with 20w50.. not tried out yet.

Now got further problems... windscreen wipers have stopped for no apparent reason.  Could be I've pulled out a connection messing with radio. Switch appears ok, getting 12v at the block connector into the wiper motor. I have found a black wire which looks like it has broken off from somewhere (insulation broken and wires sticking out are frayed), but cannot see where it could have gone to. It's not long enough to reach the block connector. It goes into the wiring loom right at the point where the loom goes through into the bulkhead, about 4 inches away from the block connector. According to the meter it has +12volt on it and sparked when I caught it to earth!!!  Cannot find it on the wiring diagram.  Any thoughts anyone?

[Badwolf]

Just sorted the wiper motor out. I have left the previous posting just in case anyone else has similar problems.  The frayed wire that I couldn't find the other end of is the main earth which goes to a connector under the body of the wiper, held in place by one of the wiper motor bolts which passes through the thick rubber mounting pad (which is why I missed it).  The circuit diagram happily shows a wire going to earth but doesn't say where the earth connector is!!  I have no idea why it was showing +12v unless there was some sort of back feed somewhere.  Anyway, I have re-connected it, nothing has gone bang, no smell of burning and no fuses have blown so, all is well... for the moment.

[Pete Lewis]

The wiper motor in general is always fed with alive which needs an earth to complete the park switch circuit

Otherwise when you switch them off they would just stop,  the park circuit keeps powered till they park up

Well something like that

Im quite calm just get ratty when a whole manufactures developement and design departments spend years of testing and analysing the results , print it all in a manual for everyone to read (if they bother )and a  misguided enthusiastically driven nuppty thinks they know better  (not you !!)

Unless youre into much modified( being a different ball game)  , stick to  the the basics triumph developed to make the cars do as it says on the tin and troubles become smiles 

Keep at it it will soon be whizzing around the countryside

Pete

I

 

[Badwolf]

Hopefully later this evening after a session with the Colourtune, if I can get it to work. Now carbs are properly oiled and mixture leaned off a bit it should be just a matter of adjusting the mixture screw ('til blue shows in the Colourtune window) and tick over. Then it should be a whizz and not a series of jumps.  Do you advocate leaving the air filters as they are or fitting the box and pipes. I know Triumph designed them like that for a reason, but I've seen bare ones, encased ones, dirty ones, expensive ones etc.  These are just bog standard replacements.

[Pete Lewis]

all setting need the air filters on, std needles  are set to work with paper filters, any change to so called free flow will weaken the intake  vacuum and need richer needles to compensate

If you set with filters off it will be richend up when you refit the filters  as the raised vacuum pulls more fuel from the jet

 

 

cool air down the tubes from in front of the radiator gives more molecules per bucket full than you get with hot underbonnet air

so yes the tubes are quiet important.

always do adjustments as in a running condition not with bits left off.

Pete

 

[Badwolf]

Ok. Got her running fairly well when warm. Still poping a bit when on choke. Not had a chance to set up properly with air filter cowl and tubes in place. Probably Sunday. Pleased to say she is handling well. My Colourtune didn't work. Fitted it but only appeared to be firing on 3. Could be it needs a better clean or maybe the washer from the old spark plug is not sealing well enough. The original copper washer got lost in the mists of time. I think after tuning, the next job is to sort out the clunk from the diff and back shafts. I have a vague recollection that they were noisy before hibernation!

[Badwolf]

Ok. So now I turn my attention to the clunk from the back end.  Sounds like it might be the prop shaft UJ, but before I take the spanners to it, could it be anything else like the diff or rear shafts? 

[Pete Lewis]

Props run at 4 times the speed of the wheels so is the clunk continuous, is it just when taking up drive, 

Does id change on cornering

Props generally give vibration rather than clunking , but if its the dreaded strap drive prop in may have a failed strap

Drive shafts clunk and knock at wheel rotation frequency often chnages onncorners or on off drive loads then its the UJ have worn and developed some float

Float on a prop uj self centres , float on a drive shaft dosnt and will knock as it rotates

There must be no cross pin or yoke lift  or float on a drive shaft uj.

 

Pete

 

[Badwolf]

Thanks Pete. Clunk is continuous and speeds up as car accelerates, slows down on braking etc. It is a strap drive, but all the straps were ok 2 weeks ago when I did the pinion seal. There is no discernable vibration, just the clunk from the back end. If its the uj prop shaft to diff, I can replace quickly. If I need to strip the dif or the ujs on the stub axles then not so quick!

[Pete Lewis]

diffs dont normally clunk.

there can be lost motion from worn planet thrust washers which can make the free play on the prop coupling seem like whole load of backlash.

its not overly important , 

most clunks and knocks are drive shaft UJ float,  stick a big lever inside and try to lift the yokes .  

then theres diff mount rubber bush conditions . exhaust fouling and more 

but if its rotational clunks its more shafts or prop  ...one of the two

Pete

[Badwolf]

I suspect that it will be the drive shaft UJ. I mentioned previously that there was a knock before the car was mothballed, but now she is on the road, it appears to be much worse.  You mentioned previously that the drive shaft spigot needed grease. I'm sure it has never been done while I have had the car, so is probably badly worn. Also reading around that the UJ needed greasing as well, which was news to me, so no wonder that things are getting worn.  By the way Pete, you will love this, On my way out the other day, the car wouldn't start so I stripped the carbs (don't ask why) after putting the last of my 20w50 oil in the engine, knocked over one of the dashpots after dumping the 3 in one and..... no oil left!!!  Managed to drain enough out of the bottom of the can to suffice but it was nearly back to the 3 in 1 to get to the local H**fords

[KevinR]

Corners of the straps hitting the handbrake quadrant ?

[Pete Lewis]

and grease the spigot is on the strap drive coupling not drive shafts

3 in 1 got a call at twiddle day ...Grrr..   but good topic for a laugh

Pete

[Badwolf]

OK, thanks gents, look like another spell underneath poking about. Looks like someone read the same internet news group posting that I did.  Think it may have been on the 'Totally Triumph' or TR sites