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**ANOTHER TALE OF WOE-BUT THINGS MIGHT BE IMPROVING??** Nose to Tail - 1972 Spitfire MkIV restoration upgrades!!


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Hi Everyone. In response to the tremendous amount of help that I have received from the forum members over the past few weeks, I have decided to open a new thread to keep all my woes together. I hope that some of my problems will help other members as I try to put my Spitfire back on the road after being mothballed for over 20 years. The topics already covers elsewhere are faulty tail/brake lights, ceased clutch, refurbishment of the horns, strange symbols in wiring diagrams, carburetor cleaning and setting, and other stuff which I will edit in as it comes back to mind. I have also converted my original pump windscreen washer unit to electric and will post details of this is due course for anyone interested.

My thanks go to (in no particular order) dougbgt6, pete lewis, casper, colin lindsay, bordfunker and everyone else who has contributed to my woes and offered so much help.

 

Some items covered in this thread which may be of interest to others - Page numbers may change slightly as this index gets longer - Page numbers will be added as I find them along with other items.

Adhesive Bonding - Pages 35-41

Blade Fuse Box - Page 32

Differential Front Oil Seal - Page 2

'Dustless' Sanding Device -- Page 42

Exhaust Supply & Fitting - Page 1

Fuel Pipe Gates Barricade - Page 49

Gutter, windscreen - Page 21

Hard Top Reconstruction - Page 42, 49

Heater Control Illumination - Page 39

Heater and plumbing - Page 9

Leaf Spring Garage Fitting Disaster - 24, 28

Bonnet Refurbishment - Page 41 onwards

Pets - Page 43

Plumbing and Heating -Page 9

Radio (cheap oriental) - Page 37+ 39 plus others

Sparkrite SX4000 (Electronic Ignition) - Page 32

Water Pump (Spitfire/Herald) - Page 1

Windscreen gutter - Page 21

Trunnions, Front, Cleaning Out - Page 1

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The latest disaster struck as I was checking out the work that I had done resetting my twin SU carburetors thanks to help from forum members. It appeared that the water pump gasket had given up due to a mixture of one bolt only being finger tight along with over tightening a slipping fan belt. So I took off the pulley assembly, cleaned up the faces and fitted a new gasket (with jointing compound) and put it all back together. Simple, I thought - until I refilled the system and found water coming from a small hole in the side of the pulley/pump. Can anyone advise me why there is water coming out here. Is it a normally sealed hole which has blown a 'core plug' due to excessive heat. Any ideas, as usual will be greatly appreciated. By the way, although its a MkIV Spitfire, the engine is a Herald 13/60. Only found out by accident recently that when the engine was replaced in the 1980s, it was from a Herald.

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The small hole in the body of the water pump is a drain (I think - rather than a greasing point), if a lot of water is coming out of there I'd guess the pump seals have failed and it's leaking. Only the very early ones are repairable, so you'll probably need a new unit.

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As I fill it up, water is coming out of the drain hole. Should there be some kind of seal in there, and out of the three positions to fit, should the hole be up or down? I originally fitted it with the hole at 2 o clock, but have now rotated it to be straight down having read stuff on other sites. Still running but not as bad, will leave it overnjght to see how much water comes out.

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As colin says is a drain hole for a failed seal it should be at the lowest downward point, but

if coolant is escaping the pump gland seals have failed

 

you can see if its repairable with new shaft and bearings and spindle seals but some are one life and not diy fixable

 

I would just get a new pump , new old stock can be too old, some new pumps are hopeless

 

stick to branded , not sure if firstline still do them

canleys are a good bet

 

pete

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Looked on both Canleys and Firstline without much success. Does anyone know the correct model for a Herald 13/60 engine GE series. There appears to be different opinions on various sites as to whether I need a GWP128 or GWP200 (I don't have a parts list for the Herald engine, only the original Spitfire) As I've already been sent the wrong exhaust manifold, I'm trying to make sure that I get the correct one.

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Gwp 200 is std pump herald and spit to mk3

a mkIV and 1500 non viscous driven uses gwp128 the base pump is the same I can only guess theres some small change to the pulley used or some change in offset to align belts dont think the fan bolt centres changed ,

 

Sorry not much help you could have a GE engine with mkIV pump and hsg, fitted

 

pete

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Gwp200 is for engines fitted with a generator. Gwp128 is for engines fitted with an alternator. The pump body is the same. The pulley is the same offset, but a different size. Longer belt needed for the gwp128. Ensures that the generator or alternator spin at the right speed range relative to the engine speed.

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Ok. The next question how do I tell exactly what I have on at the moment? The engine has an alternator, but I have no idea what was transferred, if anything, from the old spitfire engine to the herald engine when it was replaced. If fact I wasn't even aware that it was a herald engine until Paddocks queried the engine number (GE series) when I ordered the cooling hoses etc., earlier this year! Rimmers say gwp200 for all herald engines except GK series which should be gwp128, others say gwp128 for all 13/60s 1967/71.

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The GWP200 will have a 4" diameter pulley, and the GWP128 will have a 5, 1/4" pulley.

 

External parts for the engine should (in the main) be selected for the car that the engine is installed in, and not the car that sourced the engine in the first place.

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Front Trunions-The next question is about front trunions. I have tried to fill them with oil using a Wanner gun, but how do you know when they are full? After several squirts the oil just came out around the nipple/gun head. The trunions were new when fitted (and oiled) but since then the car has been garage serviced several times with the instruction "no grease in the front trunions", but who knows. They may have greased them and they are now bunged up. Over to you experts. The rears took an awful lot of grease but that eventually came out of the sides of the fittings.

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I had a similar issue with my car, as the dealer I bought it off had greased the trunnions, so I ended up stripping the front suspension down to clean all the grease out of the trunnions.

 

One thing led to another and I ended up cleaning and repainting pretty much all the chassis and suspension components around the front of the car, and upgrading to poly bushes as I realised the state of the original ones.

 

If you stick to just cleaning out the trunnions, pipe cleaners are uselful for cleaning out the oil way.

 

I replaced the washers and seals on my trunnions while they were apart, and then pumped oil into the trunnion nipple until it came out of the top seal that sits under the upright itself.

 

When it comes out of there, you know it's properly lubricated.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Karl

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If its letting oil from around the nipple the gun is not aligned , or the wrong nipple has been fitted

 

the wanner should lock on and seal when aligned ok,

 

the rears spec is 4 pumps at service , it overflows into the brake and excess drains from a catcher via a hole in the back plate, there is a seal in the inboard the seal is fitted to let grease out down the shaft but not let water in, its as if reversed, so excess grease will appear on the drive shaft

 

too much can lead to greased brake shoes

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Thanks Pete/Karl. Also read elsewhere about taking off the nipple and dipping the trunnion with a pipe cleaner to check for grease. Will try that tomorrow, clean out what I can, and try again with the oil. Trunnion nipples are brand new and should be the correct size, but my experience with a Wanner gun is new too, so may not have had it properly aligned.

 

Next thing on the agenda tomorrow is a new pinnion seal. Got the prop shaft loose but the old exhaust is proving difficult to shift and Pa**ocks have sent a full stainless sports manifold along with a complete standard exhaust system, dispite me asking them to make sure I had ordered the correct parts. What I now have is long enough for the new range of stretched spitfire. Sorry about all the edits, my tablet is not typing the correct letters... seriously.

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Im sure tablets are designed to change spaces for letters and never type like wot I wrote

 

paddocks are generally very good , your mix and match engine probably upsets the normal,

 

ie does it have a spitfife exhaust manifold or a 13/60 did they change over most ancilliaries when fittings the GE base engine this would make simplemthings like the WP and manifolding alien

to the supposed model suppliers would have no idea

Pete

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I sent a list of needed parts to Paddocks before I ordered because of the hybrid nature of the car, to make sure I got the correct  stuff.  The exhaust was blowing so I thought that whilst I was doing the exhaust in Stainless, I would replace the manifold at the same time.  Not so simple. They told me that the 'standard' manifold was no longer available and that if I wanted to keep that style, I would have to source a second-hand one.  They could supply me with a S/S sports version with a conversion piece to fit a standard S/S exhaust system. Ok, everything ordered. One of the guys there even picked up on the fact that I hadn't ordered a new engine manifold so I added that.  When I opened the box, I have a sports manifold and full S/S exhaust.  The manifold won't immediately fit the exhaust because there is no flange on it and the whole assembly is three feet longer than the car.  After laying out everything it then became obvious that I didn't need the front down-pipe on the full exhaust system, but, of course, had ordered and paid for it. I now have to decide whether to send back the front down-pipe or keep my existing manifold and send back the sports S/S version. Something that I was trying to avoid as I have been sent more than enough wrong parts because of the Herald engine, before I realised what was under the bonnet, so now more delays.

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is the existing exhaust manifold a triangle gasket and single pipe or   does it have a two pipe downpipe flange  ??

 

the fact the block is ex herald is of little effect its the bits that got bolted too it thats the what why how .

 

i take it it still has  spitfire twin SU carbs  and manifold ???  or is it 13/60 single stromberg   ???

 

Pete

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It has a triangular flange/gasket and a single pipe with twin SU HS2 carbs. The exhaust saga has taken an interesting turn. in a discussion with the supplier I was told that the parts supplied were correct but the exhaust pipe with the flange had to be cut off to allow the sports manifold to fit!!  I did point out that I had spent considerable time making sure that my order was correct for this mix of engine and body, and that no one had told me that it was necessarily to 'trim to fit' this mix of manifold and exhaust system.  They told me that they would be happy to take back anything I didn't want be, as the parts were correctly supplied, would not refund the carriage.  I have never come across anything in the forums and help desks that have said that a standard pipe had to be cut to accommodate a sports manifold and as there only appears to be sports on the market I would have though someone would have posted something somewhere!

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both 13/60 amd MK IV use the same exhaust manifold  and gasket so thats all compatible

 

 4 2 1  tubular primaries wont connect to a std exhaust   there can be very different size.  and lengths 

likewise a semi sport down pipe and rear end may need some  modifications to get it to match

 

you need all of one design not mix and match   as usually  ..they dont  and  they  needs a bit of fiddling .

 

so regardless of a GE numbered block the std MKIV   or  semi sports    should pop straight on  so long as its one or the other .

not bits of both

 

Pete

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I have laid out the full exhaust system next to the assembled sports manifold (with supplied adapter). The sports manifold with adapter fitted, lines up (and fits) perfectly with the joint between the front pipe (the one with the flange) and the rear. No cutting appears to be needed but I now realise that I have been sent an unnecessary front pipe. Paddocks insists that everything is correct despite me giving them all the details outlined previously in these posts and refuse to accept that I have too much kit.  I have decided to send back the sports assembly and just connect the full system to my existing cast manifold, until it splits and worry about that later.  It appears that no matter how much info you give a supplier, they still send out the wrong (extra) bits but in this case details of assembly should either be posted on their site or included with the parts (or am I really asking too much).

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  • Badwolf changed the title to **ANOTHER TALE OF WOE-BUT THINGS MIGHT BE IMPROVING??** Nose to Tail - 1972 Spitfire MkIV restoration upgrades!!

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