Badwolf Posted June 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 A general question for discussion and advice. I plan to clean the rather difficult to access box sections of the hard top with panel wipe and an old toothbrush before making up the repairs. However, some areas are difficult to de-grease even with a toothbrush so I intend to spray with either brake or carb cleaner to shift any residual muck or grease. Now something at the back of my mind tells me that one of these leaves a residue, probably a lubricant, but which one is it. I suspect that it is the carb cleaner but can anyone advise me please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Mathew - Yes, I have that very product. Mentioned in the post that I was going to use it on a toothbrush for some of the small areas but wanted to spray degreaser etc into places where I can't get the brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamB Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 I was told that carb cleaner leaves a fine film of oil to protect the metal. Brake cleaner is just degreaser, a film of oil to stop the discs tarnishing is not a good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Graham/Mathew - Thank you both. I thought that might be the case regarding the carb cleaner. As for the sprayer, I had thought about that but was worried that the panel wiper might dissolve some of the plastic/nylon parts. That's why I was thinking about an aerosol spray.. Thanks again all help and advice is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 My understanding is that the "propellant" is the issue, they can be Peroleum based, Butane too has been suggested?. Which would carry small traces of "lubricants". Someone with more knowledge of chemistry than I, might enlighten?. Silly Season thought?. Who remembers that scene in one of the Bond movies, where he "fries" some spider/scorpion/snake, with his lighter and a can of shaving foam?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 I was thinking of the aero cans as they will take the straw extension tube so I can get right into the corners. Some of the areas to repair are pretty small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 While thinking about the best way to clean any grease, oil, finger prints and other contaminants from the hard to access small boxed areas, I got to wondering how does panel wipe work? Where does the oil etc go to? For example, if I spray water onto glass, and wipe it, it evaporates and still leaves some dirt, limescale etc behind. So if the panel wipe initially dissolves the muck and then evaporates, does it then not leave the muck behind. Just a couple of potentially stupid thoughts over breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 'Cleaning' is just another word for 'Diluting', reducing the amount of contaminant. Even 'Sterilising' leaves the bacteria in place but kills them. For small areas, repeated use of wipes, cleaner etc is feasible, but for voids, especially with difficult access they aren't. So aim to reduce the amount of the oil, grease etc, with a large volume of diluent. Brake cleaner, carb cleaner, degreaser are too expensive to use in large volumes, but you are so fortunate in the UK to have effectively unlimited amounts of water from the tap. A strong detergent - there are many sold for degreasing engines - left to work awhile and agitated in situ, then flushed out with a hosepipe is about the best you can hope for. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 21 minutes ago, JohnD said: but you are so fortunate in the UK to have effectively unlimited amounts of water from the tap. A strong detergent - there are many sold for degreasing engines - left to work awhile and agitated in situ, then flushed out with a hosepipe is about the best you can hope for. The potential drawback to that methodology being that unless you have access to the means of applying sufficient Heat to fully evaporate the Moisture (Maybe a Hair dryer or Heat gun might work?) the residual moisture is the breeding ground for corrosion. And many adhesives, even modern ones will not adhere to a wet surface. "Gorilla Glue" is the only current one freely available I know of?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 Problem? No problem! I have a small electric space heater that, placed to blow at the part overnight, both heats and ventilates it to desert dryness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 Even so, I still have concerns about water being trapped in the very small channels and cavities even if heated and blown through. As you can see from the photos there are an awful lot of these, some being very small and tight. Maybe further experimentation is need before I go much farther. Thanks for the advice. Any other ideas are always welcome. By the way, when this is all made up, I do intend to flood the channels with dinitrol cavity wax, hopefully not trapping any water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, Badwolf said: Even so, I still have concerns about water being trapped in the very small channels and cavities even if heated and blown through. As you can see from the photos there are an awful lot of these, some being very small and tight. Maybe further experimentation is need before I go much farther. Thanks for the advice. Any other ideas are always welcome. By the way, when this is all made up, I do intend to flood the channels with dinitrol cavity wax, hopefully not trapping any water. Checkout Bilthamber Ferrosol https://www.bilthamber.com/car-cleaning-and-degreasing/ferrosol Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 Thank Mathew. Looks like a large selection of cotton buds, an old sprayer and lots of paper towel should sort things out. I suppose flooding the cavity with panel wipe and letting it run to flush out the risen oils before wiping over should be useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 Paul H - Thanks for the link, but is that not Bilthamber's version of WD40. The site talks of lubrication which is the last thing that I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 I must be honest, I keep putting off doing it and it's putting me in mood. Probably why some of the junk on here winds me up!! C'est la vie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 Mathew - Wrong thread for 'what is it' but go on, impress me. At least your stuff is intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 Not fair!!! I have never had the need to press a bearing into place. Not sure if I would even know how to start to do it but thanks for brightening my afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted July 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2021 Work continues on the hard top repairs with the speed of a Arcturan Megadonkey. Final fitting of all the repair pieces, then removing them, roughing the surface is one thing, but cleaning out the small, narrow and somewhat sharp interior box sections is taking forever. Nothing worth photographing at the moment but tomorrow I am hoping that the roughing up will be done and that I can get to the point of cleaning, panel wiping and leaving to dry out overnight ready for bonding the next morning before it gets too warm. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted July 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2021 After putting off the inevitable jobs until I was finally sent to the garage to do something useful.... .....after roughening up all the surfaces, armed with a spray bottle of panel wipe, numerous cloths, a roll of paper towel and my super-dooper 8mm crevice vacuum cleaner attachment.... ...I advanced to the garage and sucked and sprayed and wiped and sprayed and wiped some more, finally spraying the surfaces with panel wipe until they ran and I will now leave these to dry overnight and allow the fumes to clear. Thanks to you all for your input ..AGAIN!! Tomorrow is the big day to assemblng the repair panels and we will see what happens. BBQ now before the thunderstorms hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted July 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 This has probably been the worst afternoon that I have spent working on the car since the saga of the rear leaf spring. Everything was cleaned and prepped ready to start assembling the repair panels today. A job that I have been putting off for...well an awful long time because I knew that it would be dreadful. First the cartridge of Kent adhesive which I thought was half full, only gave me a pityful length of mixed adhesive before dying. Gone off??? Solid in the cartridge??? no empty. Being used to tubes of sealant, decorator's caulk etc I had looked inside the cartridge to see the plunger half way up. But, this is a 'duo' cartridge, so it has plungers built in as it uses a standard mastic gun so, half full of adhesive,half full of plungers to push it out. Bad start. So, plan B. Use the next best adhesive which I still have after my tests..the Scotch. Going along well until that too runs out. Plan C, onto the Fastmover cartridge. Now covered in adhesive, glad for the marigolds but they are stiffening up. I hate messy working, but fitting small panels in a very confined space was not condusive to tidy working. Even the blind aluminium rivets were starting to stick in the gun. So, everything done until I see a backing panel on the floor!! This should have been fitted underneath one of the most awkward, bendy, 3D panel strips and is essential. Only one thing for it, drill out all the retaining rivets remove the repair panel (what a mess), fit the back panel and refit the top bit. At last, done, apart from two finishing pieces for underneath. By the time I had finished I was in no mood for photos, but, providing the 'muck' has set, I may embarrass myself with a couple tomorrow to show you exactly how not to do it. I may just run the sander over first to dress it back a bit, to improve the look, if that's at all possible. Just glad that I don't weld. That would have been even worse having the grind back and start that section again with a new top piece. Maybe more tomorrow. At least now there is more steel in the b****y thing than there has been for 30 years. Just hope it sticks there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 o heck strong tea sounds a plan Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordfunker Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 Sometime you just have to walk away and sleep on it. Not literally as if you slept on the part you were repairing, you would probably stick to it! Karl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted July 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 I finally gave in and went to have a look at the mess that awaited me. Yes it is a mess, but not quite as bad as I was expecting. Firstly, this is what I had taken out of the bottom of the window frames.... ..a mixture of fibreglass and filler. There was also a considerable amount of rusty metal. You may remember, way back, the back section started out looking like this.. The right window frame base looked fine until I started to remove the paint ..then this after all the fibreglass, filler and most of the deep rust had been removed... ..and after an afternoon of well, you can guess (see yesterday's post), it turned out like this.....purists look away now... Bonded in, with aluminium rivets to hold things into place while the adhesive cured overnight. It isn't pretty, I know, but hopefully when I can get it outside and run the grinder over it, it may just improve. I am hoping that it should not take more than 2 to 3 mm of skim to profile it. At least, as I said in my earlier post, it now has more steel in it than it has had for many, many years. Oh, and yes, all the adhesive has set, like concrete, as for strength, I am not testing anything to destruction with this one...time will have to tell!!. However, if you are using any, do not let it set where you don't want it as, thankfully, it is very, very difficult to remove. A hacksaw or grinder appears to be the only things to shift it. When I tap the fin thingies (marked 10 in the photo) the metal almost rings indicating to me that the bond is good and solid. Again, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted July 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 To finish off the bonding bit, I turned the hardtop over, cleaned up the areas at the base of the fin thingies and fitted a couple of base plates. This was probably the easiest bit to do and probably the neatest. I was pleased to notice that all the repair panels, especially the fin thingies were exceptionally solid even when I came to reshape one of the base panels with a hammer. What have I learned over the weekend? Well quite a few things which I will pass on, in no particular order.... 1. If using clamps or mole wrenches to hold the repair panel while the bond cures, wrap a piece of silicone backing paper around the clamp points to prevent bonding your mole wrench to the metal work. 2. Always make sure that your rivet holes are big enough for the rivets (self tapping screw holes were smaller) before applying the bond. No I didn't!!! 3. Work quickly to prevent the bond curing in the applicator mixing tip but not so quickly that you have trouble getting the repair panels in position. 4. Use panel wipe to clean your rivet gun every 10 minutes or so to prevent the bond from curing and gluing your rivets into the gun. When you apply a rivet some bond gets into the hole in the gun and builds up. 5. Make sure that your bond cartridge actually has product in it before you start...yes really. 6. Wear heavy duty marigold gloves, the thin ones tear as any bond starts to set on them. You will get the muck on them otherwise there is no point in wearing them. Do not even think of trying to pick up a drink!! 7. Be methodical, not necessarily taking your time, the bonding makes sure talking to much time is a luxury. 8. Make a clear list of the order that your numbered panels (yes number them) are going to be fitted 9. If you drop your repair panels on the floor, don't panic but do find them all before you continue. If they have any bond on them, they will of course land bond side down, bonding to every bit of fluff, swarf and dust, so clean thoroughly with panel wipe and try again 10. Try to clean off any high spots of bond before it cures. It will set like concrete, but it is sandable. It can be wiped over with paper towel or even a finger to flatten down, but can be cut as it cures, with a craft knife. It goes sort of plasticky as it goes off Anything else that come to mind I will add to this post and mark up the edit I hope that some of this helps some of you. BW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Tee shirt is in the post Hmmmm !! well done Im sure adhesive will be used by more following your determined trials Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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