** ON TO THE NEXT BIT ** Nose to Tail - 1972 Spitfire MkIV restoration upgrades!!

[Badwolf]

On 08/09/2019 at 19:06, Colin Lindsay said:

Mine arrived yesterday; took about a week. First impressions are that because of the silver front moulding they're not as solid as the all-black version, but it's closer in looks to the old Motorola version that i'm replacing in the Herald. Is yours still behaving?

Colin - I am pinballing around beween projects, hence the thread has become a bit scrappy and disjointed. I spent the afternoon fitting the cheap and chearful fleabay oriental radio with the wonderful 1970s translation instructions. It is working well and I am more than surprised at what it does for the money and the sound is more than acceptable considering the price, and where it is. FM/SD card/usb power/bluetooth/hands free (not tested)/auto search/multi station pre-sets/eq/front and rear left and right balance (no front to back that I have found yet) along with some other stuff that I haven't worked out yet. I have drafted some 'user instructions' but would like a way to post them so that they can be amended and updated by everyone. This is to prevent an on-going list of posts with updates which may string out over a considerable time. If anyone knows a way to do this (Kevin ??), please let me know before I post them.

[Badwolf]

The next project which I would like to pass on to you all relates to a thread concerning illuminating the dashboard heater controls. If you have a plastic dashboard, you won't be able to do this as the plastic trim piece which needs illuminating is part of the wooden dashboard plastic insert. The plastic dash is a complete moulding.

Anyway, here we go...

First drop down the centre section of the dash after removing the heater control knobs

I used a piece of aluminium angle section to form a 'light-box'...

.. bending the ends over, adding an angle piece to hold onto the back off the wooden dash and drilling holes in each end for the bulb holders. The assembly is simply pop riveted together

The bulb holders were pushed into the holes packing with tape where needed for a secure fit and wired into the instrument light circuit.

Then fitted with an LED bulb of the colour of your choice. I have already changed my other gauge bulbs to green LEDs

Yes they work!!!

.. and then screw the assembly to the dash. you can seal the assembly with mastic if you want, I didn't bother

.. and refit in place.  As an aside, I dropped the dash centre to photograph as I was also fitting the cheap retro copy oriental radio (more of that in a later post)

and yes, it lights up

and glows in the dark. Not over-bright as to distract, but useful for finding the controls in the dark.

I hope this helps someone out there.

[Colin Lindsay]

Excellent job! Just a pity the radio isn't green as that would be a nice touch, but it still looks well.

Incidentally, the seller who sold me mine is no longer a registered seller on eBay... wonder why?

[Badwolf]

I could change the green leds to blue...hhmmmm. As for the radio, I intend the start a new thread shortly with the instrutions. Then everyone can post their updates and I will amend the 'master' post as needed. There appears to be a bit of interest in this cheap and cheerful radio so it might be useful to many. Maybe next week, due to other commitnents.

[JohnD]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!  The flux capacitor is overloading!

Nhoj

[Badwolf]

John - Keep on with the meds!!

[dougbgt6]

BW,

I moved the radio, put in 3 more gauges, GREEN gauges! 😀 My radio is on the small shelf to the right of the steering wheel, you can’t see it, operate it with the remote.

db

[Anglefire]

I've half thrown in my new radio - the plugs were the same as the old one (A rover one!) so that was easy - but that is where the ease ended!

The +ve feed was un-shrouded at the joint - so had blown the fuse! Replaced the joint with a shrouded bullet.

The speaker wires were twisted and taped - so replaced with bullets. 

The aerial lead was too short so had to re-route.

And I've not found (Or looked actually) for a switched feed and so I've had to leave the fuse out so it doesn't flatten the battery - I'll find a suitable feed when I change the dash!

[Badwolf]

Trails and tribble-ations. At least you've put it in. Will sort out the instructions this week then you can add to what I've managed to sort out and between us all we can sort out a decent manual for others. It's quite a reasonable radio/player for its cost. I have been very surprised. So much better than the first one I got, which, by the way, I still have as Fleabay have refunded but the supplier has not yet sent me a return label. Raffle prize anyone??

[Colin Lindsay]

15 hours ago, Badwolf said:

Trails and tribble-ations. At least you've put it in. Will sort out the instructions this week then you can add to what I've managed to sort out and between us all we can sort out a decent manual for others. It's quite a reasonable radio/player for its cost. I have been very surprised. So much better than the first one I got, which, by the way, I still have as Fleabay have refunded but the supplier has not yet sent me a return label. Raffle prize anyone??

Give it another chance. Mine's working well, although the rear speakers are lying free as the entire rear end has been removed so the sound may not be as good as it will be once the speakers are back in the side trims. For that sort of price you can salt it away in a drawer for when the other one gives up.

 

 

[Badwolf]

Colin - Alresdy put the original radio in the spares box. My front speakers are fitted like your rear ones. However, just taken delivery of a pair of Radiomobile pod speakers like the ones you recommended, to replace them. Lady BW has hidden them away as a 'surprise' Christmas present.

[Badwolf]

ADHESIVE BONDING THE FINAL TESTS (for the time being)

So back to the subject of structurally bonding metal, or gluing, to put not to fine a point on it.  Can I thank all of you who have shown an interest in my experiments and sent PMs for specific details.  Due to other commitments, it has taken me longer than expected to complete this and if you have been hanging on for the results, my apologies.

If you look back over the previous attempts you will see that I started out bonding two sheets of plate steel together (page 35) and then flexed the metal across the joint. This resulted in the bond holding well, but the plate stated to fracture due to metal fatigue. In real terns, it is doubtful that body repairs would have to withstand this excessive amount of flexing and in this case, the bond was subjected to an extreme amount of flexing.

My next attempts involved bonding two lengths of 1” square steel tube (page 36) with a bond of 1”sq. The results are as posted earlier. Bear in mind that this particular test stressed the bond only, as there was little flex in the rigid steel tube to absorb the energy (unlike thinner steel plate).

These next tests were similar to the previous ones, in that I was bonding two pieces of the same 1” square tubing (old table legs), but this time overlapping and bonding an area of 2” x 1” as suggested by Mjit (on 23/08/19). Each adhesive used was tested with the bond in the horizontal (peel/cleavage) and also the vertical (shear). I am unsure with the peel tests if the weighted bar gives a different result when underneath or on top of the join, due to any point of leverage, but these test were done with the weighted bar on the top as can be seen from the photos.

Please refer to:

https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/bonding-and-assembly-uk/resources/science-of-adhesion/common-stress-types-adhesive-joints/

 

The test set-ups were these:

Joint in the horizontal (peel/cleavage).....

Joint in the Vertical (shear).....

 

In all cases a bucket containing 50 pounds of scrap metal was moved along the bar until the joint fractured

 

Adhesive - Fast Movers Metal Panel Bond 20

Peel/cleavage – Joint fractured 10” from the joint

Shear - Joint fractured 25” from the joint

Adhesive – Scotch/3M DP460

Peel/cleavage – Joint fractured 16” from the joint

Shear - Joint fractured 26” from the joint

Adhesive- Fast Movers MMA 2 Part Structural Bonding – This was supplied short dated and was past its ‘use by’ date by the time I came to test it again (The first test being those on the plate steel mentioned earlier).  The joint was made and left for several weeks due to lack of time. When I came to do the final destructive test on the joints, things did not go smoothly.

Expecting similar results to the previous, I only used a length of tube about 20” long. When I reached the end of the tube, with no sign of breaking I added a smaller ¾” tube inside to extend the length, which eventually broke…

Peel/cleavage – Joint fractured 30” from the joint

A similar problem with the shear test but even at full extension the joint did not break. The addition of a solid house brick (10lb weight, making the total weight 60lb) made little difference, except to bend the bar and the top of my workmate (as can be seen in the photo) and the bucket ended up gently on the grass. At which point I gave up….

Shear – Joint still held firm at 42” from the joint with a solid blue engineering brick in the bucket with the scrap. Note the bend on the tube and also the bend in the solid, 3/4” plywood top on the workmate

Note the bend in the workmate top in this enlargement of the previous peel/cleavage photo

I have shared these results once again with a friend who is in the ‘special steels’ industry who has been surprised at the strength of most of the joints from an ‘over the counter’ adhesive. These are not cheap, but there are more expensive, more specialised adhesives on the market (I have just noticed that FastMovers are now selling a 'super structural adhesive') which I can only assume give even better bonds than those that I have had.

I was unable to get hold of any of the 3M/Scotch DP420 to test, as used in the videos shown here….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3juYAYz_yg

and here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqKj9iwg1Mk

I now pass these experiments over to you for comment and discussion.  I intend over the next few weeks (time again, permitting) to use this technique on part of my bonnet restoration and will keep you all informed whether it holds well or fails

 

 

[RogerH]

Hi,

Did you prep the steel surface before applying the adhesive?

For a simple clean the adhesive will bond happily. However over time the steel surface will start to corrode (microscopically) and the bond will fail.

I have a stainless air vent lid on my 4A that has the hinge bonded with a fancy Araldite - this has survived for the last 12+ years.

The surface was prep'd using a phosphoric acid.  For Aluminium anodizing works well.

 

Roger

[Badwolf]

RogerH - Yes, I read your post about the Aviation Araldite. As for preparation, just before applying the adhesive, I went over each face lightly with a grinding disc to rough up, clean off any muck, paint, rust and any old glue from other tests and then wiped the surfaces over with panel wipe.

[RogerH]

Hi Badwolf,

your initial prep is fine for the short term. 

Before you contemplate a repair to the car using this method try another test and apply phosphoric acid tot he surfaces and allow to dry.  Jenolite should work.

This will stop/slow down corrosion starting over a long period.

 

Roger

[Badwolf]

Roger - Thanks for the advice. I would have thought that coating the metal with the adhesive would exclude the air and prevent most corrosion. I don't have any phosphoric but I do have Bilthamber Hydrate 80. Would that work in a similar way. I don't want any coating on the steel that might prevent the adhesive from bonding.  Everything that I have read says that any sort of coating between the steel and the adhesive weakens the bond which is what I am trying to avoid and what this section of the thread is all about. All other examples of using adhesives on car bodywork have advocated clean, contamination free bare metal.No rust, no oxide, no paint. I really don't want to continue testing forever!!!

[RogerH]

Hi Badwolf,

In theory the phosphate coating becomes part of the metal structure and shouldn't separate (great last words)

I read a couple of process sheets last night for adhesives and none of them gave a hint towards surface coatings. - perhaps it is just an aerospace oddity.

 Thus I would suggest - stick with what you know.  Good clean and degrease.

Roger

[Colin Lindsay]

On 20/10/2019 at 16:43, Badwolf said:

I intend over the next few weeks (time again, permitting) to use this technique on part of my bonnet restoration and will keep you all informed whether it holds well or fails

I'll follow this with interest and hope you don't find out the hard way!

[Badwolf]

Happy New Year everyone. Yes, very belated, but many aspects of life have got in the way of things Triumph, but now with the C-19 thing, I now have more time and have returned to annoy everyone. So back on with the jobs on the Spitfire. I also have a lot of forum reading to catch up on.

[Pete Lewis]

and you thought you were missed  

welcome back to the grind 

Pete

[Badwolf]

Something of a diversion. I am looking to replace my modern (yes, I know, sorry) with something newer, lower mileage but 2nd hand. I notice that there are a huge number of cars with tinted (privacy) glass in the rear windows. Has this any real use or is it just an affectation. I don't want to drive around in a car that looks like it was previously owned by the local drugs baron. I'm sure that some of you have thoughts on this. Personally I'm not in favour but if there are real practical advantages, may reconsider.

[68vitesse]

Tinted windows will reduce the, heat, glare and UV damage inside a car but to dark a tint is illegal.

Most cars have some degree of tint from new but some of the darker films added by previous owners must be illegal.

Regards

Paul

[Badwolf]

Thanks Paul. This is a factory fitted, production line job.  I just wondered what the real advantages are, if any, and why there are so many about.  As the tint is not allowed in the front windows, it makes the car look 'unfinished' to my eyes.  I wondered what everyone though about it as there are now a lot about.

[Colin Lindsay]

On 06/10/2019 at 18:23, Anglefire said:

I've half thrown in my new radio

And I've not found (Or looked actually) for a switched feed and so I've had to leave the fuse out so it doesn't flatten the battery - I'll find a suitable feed when I change the dash!

I've half thrown mine out!! DO NOT mention car radios to me. Dammit I just did...

In the GT6 I have permanent live from the fuse box (yellow wire) and a switched live from the aux terminal of the ignition switch, plus an earth in the usual black. Connected them up on Thursday morning, unit would not work. Power from two, earth a the other, no working unit. Tried it with a battery on the bench - lit up and worked perfectly. Back in the car - nothing. Dug out the other Chinese cheapie intended for the TR7, same thing. Gave up on the Chinese models, Friday morning I fitted a JVC unit which meant wiring in another loom. It lit up but with the message "miswiring fault - pwr down'. Searched the Net, after a lot of dead ends found that it MAY also refer to speakers, so stripped out all the trim and found a speaker cable crushed by a tightened bracket. Rewired that, JVC unit lights up as normal but on trying a USB stick it tells me 'unsupported format'. Reformatted the USB this morning, back out to the garage and... nothing. Unit does not light up at all. Ignition lights up, power to yellow and red cables, but no unit. Checked the unit's own 10amp fuse, plus the 2 amp inline fuse from the ignition switch, both okay. Came back inside and left it for another day.

So: you should be able to run a switched feed from the ignition switch and if you want a permanent live can run one from the back of the fuse box (it will flatten the battery over a few weeks), but after that...

 

 

[Badwolf]

Wow. Ask about tinted windows and up comes radio details. Nice, especially as I have just started fitting the Radiomobile pod speakers that Colin recommended last year and that Lady B/W bought me for Christmas. How strange is that?