AidanT Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I purchased an electronic torque adapter/tester As expensive as a cheap torque wrench but allows me to use any wrench to torque up Aidan https://www.toolstop.co.uk/index.php?option=shop&page=shop.product_details&product_id=57299&l=uk&utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&gclid=CjwKCAiAsejRBRB3EiwAZft7sN0jy6Ut4QS9FZaUoAFvuAUaks70pjFh23kNqdn3xHm-sqfm1-7KdBoCpPoQAvD_BwE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Those units are very good Aidan, a couple of friends have them and are more than happy with the performance. In fact one of the friends lives in the Netherlands and could not source a unit locally for common sense money. It was cheaper for me to buy here and send it to him. The alternative, which I have, is digital Clarke TW - got it from Machine Mart and was a decent price. I have had it checked a couple of times and spot-on readings: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-pro237-12-drive-digital-electronic-to/?da=1&TC=GS-040218237&gclid=CjwKCAiA1O3RBRBHEiwAq5fD_AczcSC0aB_AEcf_20z8pAreNQdK0FaNDWFbbw4T1KYo4WjdA5BuPRoCr4YQAvD_BwE Depends what takes your fancy. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 You can self calibrate Clamp drive in vice Measure a know distance down the handle Then add a known weight So example 25lb at 2 ft gives 50 lbft. 50 at 1 ft gives 50lbft Make the handle longer and less weight is needed Eg 12.5 lb at 4 ft gives 50lbft So afew bricks or bag of sand will get you result , even use a decent spring balance scales , Stand on the bathroom scales and watch the load reduce by a known amount as you press the wrench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 That all makes sense Pete - I'll have a little test of my little one later. Well, I've refitted the head, torqued it down and fitted the manifolds and water pump topday. I've removed the mullered fuel pump stud - but the new one won't go in - I'm hoping my dad has a suitable 5/16 UNF tap to clean out the threads - otherwise it's another essential tool to buy! So its pretty much ready to go in - just got to refit the dizzy - though not much point doing that until I've spun up the oil pump. I've also got to get a new nut for one of the rocker pedestals - stripped on refitting and I don't have a spare which is annoying - also got to set the tappets - but until the last bolt is in I won't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Are you sure that the mangled thread is Imperial ?? A PO may have fitted a metric stud in error / on purpose because there was a thread issue to begin with. This might / will cause an issue when you tap it again and the tap thread is incorrect; I would certainly check the thread type on the stud you are replacing first to confirm if it is I or M before you go tapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 AF, Don't forget to re-torque the head bolts after a couple of hundred miles. Did mine and then the tappets were WAY out! Doug 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 43 minutes ago, classiclife said: Are you sure that the mangled thread is Imperial ?? A PO may have fitted a metric stud in error / on purpose because there was a thread issue to begin with. This might / will cause an issue when you tap it again and the tap thread is incorrect; I would certainly check the thread type on the stud you are replacing first to confirm if it is I or M before you go tapping. I can't see an insert in the block TBH - and the stud that came out is imperial. My dad has come up trumps (I think!) with a 5/16" unf tap - most of the ones he has from his dad or his old neighbour are nearly all whitworth BSF or KEN (Which I think refers to the model engineering 40tpi rather than the original owner of the taps and dies ) The tappet gap is a bit bigger than standard with the newman cam - though I'm buggered if I can find where it says that now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Well that's good news Mark, at least you know what you are dealing with. Sorry - cannot help with the Newman cam gapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Well the tap worked - I had 2 - a taper and non taper (Square end?) anyway, the non taper was the wrong thread - it was close and to be fair it wasn't marked UNF but when I compared the two threads it looked the same - but a nut wouldn't run down it, unlike the other one - but anyway, the taper one ran up the threads lovely and the new stud went in a dream Fuel pump all now mounted too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Pedestal nuts get stripped when some misguided operator torques them up as head nuts Std 3/8unf max 29- 31lbft , and probably less on alloy pedestals , (sorry books in the cold nosun lounge ) Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 According to one of the websites, the 1500 is 32-34lb/ft - I've not looked in my new Haynes manual as Father Christmas hasn't arrived yet (I have an older one that says it covers the 1500 - but doesn't cover the engine!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 My triumph produced manuals show all 3/8"unf pedestals nuts as 24-26lbft bit lower than a std hard fixing ( as I would expect) From years of developing torque control on truck assemble. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 The Triumph Spitfire torque site says : Rocker pedestal nut to cylinder head 24-26 GT6, 26-34 GT6Mk3, 28-30 Spits (not 1500), 32-34 1500 3/8 UNF x 3.09 stud Tbh - I don't think its that critical - the 3 have gone to 32Ib/ft ok - and when I get the forth (It will probably come off the old engine for now!) then I'll take that to 32 as well just for consistancy - the studs are hardened as far as I can tell - the one that the nut had stripped on once I'd got the bits of nut thread unpeeled from the stud it was good as new! Now, I don't know the grade of the nuts, but found this on T'internet - so it must be true! GRADE 5 GRADE 8 Fine Thread Fine Thread Size Clamp Load Plain (ft. lbs.) Plated Size Clamp Load Plain (ft. lbs.) Plated (ft. lbs.) 1/4-28 (.250) 2325 10 87 in lbs. 1/4-28 (.250) 3263 14 10 5/16-24 (.3125) 3675 19 14 ft lbs. 5/16-24 (.3125) 5113 27 20 3/8-24 (.375) 5588 35 26 ft lbs. 3/8-24 (.375) 7875 49 37 7/16-20 (.4375) 7575 55 41 ft lbs. 7/16-20 (.4375) 10650 78 58 1/2-20 (.500) 10200 85 64 ft lbs. 1/2-20 (.500) 14400 120 90 9/16-18 (.5625) 12975 122 91 ft lbs. 9/16-18 (.5625) 18300 172 129 5/8-18 (.625) 16350 170 128 ft lbs. 5/8-18 (.625) 23025 240 180 3/4-16 (.750) 23775 297 223 ft lbs. 3/4-16 (.750) 33600 420 315 7/8-14 (.875) 32475 474 355 ft lbs. 7/8-9 (.875) 45825 668 501 1-12 (1.000) 42300 705 529 ft lbs. 1-12 (1.000) 59700 995 746 1-14 (1.000) 32275 721 541 ft lbs. 1-14 (1.000) 61125 1019 764 1 1/8-12 (1.125) 47475 890 668 ft lbs. 1 1/8-12 (1.125) 77025 1444 1083 1 1/4-12 (1.250) 59550 1241 930 ft lbs. 1 1/4-12 (1.250) 96600 2012 1509 1 3/8-12 (1.375) 72975 1672 1254 ft lbs. 1 3/8-12 (1.375) 118350 2712 2034 1 1/2-12 (1.500) 87750 2194 1645 ft lbs. 1 1/2-17 (1.500) 142275 3557 2668 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Just in case someone happens across this thread when searching for info... The GT6 Haynes Manual and GT6/Vitesse Triumph Workshop Manual both state 24-26ft lb for the pedestal nuts irrespective of model of GT6 - think I'd follow those rather than a table off t'internet. Gully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Gully, its not just any page I've got it off- its this one http://www.triumphspitfire.com/Torque.html - that and elsewhere they Haynes manual says the same - I'll know for sure when I open my new manual on Monday The above table was just something I found that confirmed the torque wasn't outside of the normal torque range for the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Anglefire said: Gully, its not just any page I've got it off- its this one http://www.triumphspitfire.com/Torque.html - that and elsewhere they Haynes manual says the same - I'll know for sure when I open my new manual on Monday The above table was just something I found that confirmed the torque wasn't outside of the normal torque range for the bolt. I'm not doubting that someone's gone to a lot of effort to produce the table you've linked - I simply wanted to highlight that the GT6 information isn't borne out by either of the manuals I own. Neither suggests the Mk3 has a different torque. Gully 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 dont rely on internet and fact sheets developed by heck knows who hanyes are brilliant at typo's and mis quotes triumphspitfire.com is just another magazine founded script of facts, or fiction , just stick to triumph engineering developed data and you get whats intended . whlst i dont have a specific 1500 manual all with the common 3/8 pedestal stud nuts from the 948 1200, 13/60/ 1600 / 2ltr 200-2500 all are the same 24 -26 lb ft alloy onto steel hard faces needs less torque that steel/steel mating surfaces up it if you feel confident and then wonder why you have found stripped nuts pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 1:15 PM, Anglefire said: I can't see an insert in the block TBH - and the stud that came out is imperial. My dad has come up trumps (I think!) with a 5/16" unf tap - most of the ones he has from his dad or his old neighbour are nearly all whitworth BSF or KEN (Which I think refers to the model engineering 40tpi rather than the original owner of the taps and dies ) The tappet gap is a bit bigger than standard with the newman cam - though I'm buggered if I can find where it says that now! Hello Anglefire Newman lists 0.014" inlet and 0.016" exhaust for all 1300/1500cc camshafts. My Triumph Manual lists cylinder head 46ft/lb Rocker pedestal 34ft/lb 3/8"unf x 3.09" stud This is a 1500 cc manual AMK4329 by BL Cars Ltd 1979 Roger ps I have just ordered a Newman camshaft but a PH2 as I am trying to built a bit more powerful engine! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 thanks Roger .if they upped the torque for just the dreaded 1500 then you need higher tensile nuts same used as for the head its the same evovled pedestal on the 4 cyl , why would the 1500 need more i wonder where that thinking came from pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Trust no one! "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense" The Budda Doug 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Thanks Roger - buggered if I can find it - but glad that I’m also not going mad (well I might be!) and that it does exist. And that the torque setting for at least the 1500 is “correct” Pete the nuts look a bit longer than normal ones and are black - but being under the rocker cover and subject to hot oil, doesn’t mean a lot! I wondered if the head nuts would fit, though I thought I’d tried one of the old ones and it didn’t spin on - but not saying it’s not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Hello All My Haynes manual says 45ft/lb 1150/1300 cc heads and 25ft/lb rocker pedestals big ends and mains are up as well? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 57 minutes ago, rogerguzzi said: Hello All My Haynes manual says 45ft/lb 1150/1300 cc heads and 25ft/lb rocker pedestals big ends and mains are up as well? Roger Hello All A copy of the the Spitfire 1500 manual. You may have to turn your heads to the side but if turn them they would be smaller! Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Thats very useful - Thanks Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Gone to the next phase now. Took the old engine out this morning and put the rebuilt one back in this afternoon. Couple of minor issued discovered along the way - the three studs on the top of the engine weren't fitted - my mistake should have noticed, but should go in easily enough. Not all bell housing bolts are in - need to get some more as some are not in good nick whilst some are virtually new! Must admit I've changed quite a few bolts/nuts along the way and pretty much always changed them all in the "set" - So I'll get some more later - unless I can find some suitable ones in my spares boxes. A couple of the nuts were too short too - only holding on with a few threads. Got to remove the rest of the old exhaust before refitting the manifolds (again!) - get some suitable antifreeze and replace the remaining rubber hoses. Fit the new radiator - glad I bought a new one already as it is a bit knackered with a few sections of fins missing. Not allowed to do any more on it tomorrow - but Tuesday is a very likely day to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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