Help out a young driver

[Weathersbubble]

Hi there,

I'm a newly passed driver (<3 months ago), and am looking at purchasing a first car. I have been saving up for a while, so am looking to spend about £2500 to £3000 on the car (a lovely little Herald 1200) and a bit £extra for insurance.

Searching through forums I have found many stories from 2008 to 2013 of dirt cheap classic policies for new drivers, but recently this appears to have gone dry. I am very interested in an old car for the experience, not money saving - but as a student money is a big factor (luckily my dad can help with repairs).

I have got a few quotes for £2000+ from Peter James and Adrian Flux, with some companies like Admiral not offering me a quote at all. Just wondered if there was anything I was missing other than being part of a car club / possibly adding my Dad with his 20+ years NCB and history of classic cars.

I really appreciate any help you can give

[Pete Lewis]

A search on here will find a number of tails of angste and success the collapse of cheap was brought about by the underwriters classing 

Aged classics in the same mould as  idiots in escorts and saxo etc with them creating high risk.

Adding an adult may help , but some find a citroen C1 is the vastly cheaper option 

This has caused a lot of young drivers have been adversly affected by this stupid ruling The club has tried long and hard to get some sense as do the insurance brokers who all loose out but its seems unlikely to change 

 

[Weathersbubble]

14 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

A search on here will find a number of tails of angste and success the collapse of cheap was brought about by the underwriters classing 

Aged classics in the same mould as  idiots in escorts and saxo etc with them creating high risk.

Adding an adult may help , but some find a citroen C1 is the vastly cheaper option 

This has caused a lot of young drivers have been adversly affected by this stupid ruling The club has tried long and hard to get some sense as do the insurance brokers who all loose out but its seems unlikely to change 

 

Cheers for helping me out, it's looking bleak for at least my first year on the road - just seems hard to spend my own money on an unloved Ford Ka or the like

[John Bonnett]

If you are determined to insure the Herald, the general opinion is to avoid all Firms who specialise in insuring classics. Go to mainstream companies who will give you the best deal. Insuring young drivers is completely beyond my comprehension. Our 17 year old grandson has just insured an 06 plated 140bhp Audi A4 S-Line Estate for less than he was offered on a 2000 1.4 Astra. How does that work?

[Weathersbubble]

Just now, John Bonnett said:

If you are determined to insure the Herald, the general opinion is to avoid all Firms who specialise in insuring classics. Go to mainstream companies who will give you the best deal. Insuring young drivers is completely beyond my comprehension. Our 17 year old grandson has just insured an 06 plated 140bhp Audi A4 S-Line Estate for less than he was offered on a 2000 1.4 Astra. How does that work?

From my ever increasing experience of insurance companies, it is based off the risk factor - so a Vauxhall Astra/Corsa is supposedly a car for by racers who spend most of the time yanking the handbrake. An Audi is statistically out of their range so isn't as bad a deal.

...although by that logic they should be paying me to insure the Herald!

[Anglefire]

I've just searched Autotrader and there are C1's around for under a grand. Run it for a year, sell it for £500 say and then get your Herald. You might well save the cost compared to a classic for the first year?

 

[Pete Lewis]

There are loads of topics on this  eg

pete

 

[dougbgt6]

If you were my off spring I would advise a sensible modern, bite the bullet and accumulate some no claims. Our cars have no crash protection, poor braking and poor suspension, once you have some motoring experience you will be ready. One of my daughters drives like a lunatic, the other drives like a granny, neither are ready for a Triumph!

Doug

[Weathersbubble]

5 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

If you were my off spring I would advise a sensible modern, bite the bullet and accumulate some no claims. Our cars have no crash protection, poor braking and poor suspension, once you have some motoring experience you will be ready. One of my daughters drives like a lunatic, the other drives like a granny, neither are ready for a Triumph!

Doug

My theory was learning to drive well from the start, in that I wouldnt be able to become complacent.

P.S. I don’t know about you but I’ve seen some lunatic Grannys about where I live ?

[dougbgt6]

I would want my sprogs to learn in an armoured cocoon. Their mother is the lunatic granny who taught number 2 girl to drive. 

[Adrian]

My daughter has just had her renewal after her first year of driving, £600 with breakdown cover etc. It includes the black box. Last year was around £900 for the Nissan micra 56 plate.ironically it was with direct line as I had my car and household insurance with them they offered a good discount for her and me being a named driver made a difference as well. I do believe there is a gulf between male and female new driver insurance costs. Might be worth giving them a go.

i must say there is a big difference between the safety of a modern and classic, but personally find I don’t need to drive fast in the classic but that could be me. There is however no accounting for other dangerous drivers hitting you. All food for thought, good luck.

[Anglefire]

Actually, the law on insurance changed a few years back and they were no longer able to discriminate between genders. However, I'm sure they will find a way around it!

[Pete Lewis]

The only accident I have had in  many many years was being a lunatic grandad in the 2000 when on a Area outing run to meet up with Doug in Wallingford I planted the 2000 in the back of Doc Martins nice Herald    so I blame Doug .

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

17 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

A search on here will find a number of tails of angste and success the collapse of cheap was brought about by the underwriters classing 

Aged classics in the same mould as  idiots in escorts and saxo etc with them creating high risk.

Adding an adult may help , but some find a citroen C1 is the vastly cheaper option 

This has caused a lot of young drivers have been adversly affected by this stupid ruling The club has tried long and hard to get some sense as do the insurance brokers who all loose out but its seems unlikely to change 

 

Chicken and egg here; the problem was that young drivers, desperate to get on the road, bought classics for the reduced Insurance and then thrashed them, thereby tarring everybody with the same brush... 

My daughter's first insurance was twice the price of the car....

[dougbgt6]

Colin,

I thought she had a horse!

Do you need insurance for a horse?

Doug

[Gully]

1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said:

Colin,

I thought she had a horse!

Do you need insurance for a horse?

Doug

I suspect not to use one on the road - when our old village doctor lost his licence for drink driving he got a pony and trap for house calls!

Gully

[dougbgt6]

Colin,

My dad used to say "An alcoholic is someone who drinks more than their doctor" I like the sound of your bloke. My doctor drinks a small sherry at Christmas. 

Doug

[AndyTV8]

Unfortunately your first policy is always going to be problematic....  both my girls after passing at 17 had their first year insurance on pretty boring stuff, the best insurance-wise and being dirt cheap to run was the C1.

Adding one (or both) of your parents as named drivers on your policy will lower the premium - often by 15-18%.

I think your desire to drive/run an older car while gaining experience is a great idea - including learning to drive defensively, yes, you are still at the mercy of other drivers, but aren’t we all whenever we cross the road? 

Have you spoken (rather than online quotes) to members of the club insurance panel, they may be able to help. But if not, I’d probably go for the boring option, build some no-claims, get another birthday in and then try again - I know that isn’t whepat you want to hear though!

if you do find somewhere do let others know so that they can tread the same path, happy policy-hunting.

last thought, Diamond (subsidiary of Admiral) will sell you a 10-month initial policy and then give you 1 year NCB.... so you get your premium-reducing NCB 2 months early

..... Andy 

[JohnD]

"Blackbox" insurance may be a way to go.   Your car is fitted with a data logger that has GPS to record road speed and accelerometers to record braking, acceleration and cornering.   The Guardian today has an article about how the insurers use the data, that are sent to them electronically: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/16/motoring-myths-black-boxes-telematics-insurance

For instance, 'Marmalade'  says that they will charge the driver an extra £125-250 for risky driving, ring them up if they see an especially bad episode and cancel the insurance if they don't reform.  That's good - you and your's don't want drivers that will cost more in repairs insured with the same company as you.   And another, 'Insurethebox' say that while a first year driver's premium can cost £1200, good behaviour in that year can save 37% and over two years, £2000 compared with a conventuional policy.

The article also shows that the data reveals som interesting trends.   17 year olds drive with less risk than 18+, women are safer than men - despite the EU making discrimination illegal - and that NHS workers are the safest of all.  Yay!

Most, their data show that speed is the killer.  No surprise there either, but numbers.  Drivers that speed 'only' 20% of the time are 87% more liekely to have an accident.

Drive slower and safer for Christmas!

John.

No connection with any insurers! 

[Anglefire]

Actually I would like to qualify the speed bit - Inappropriate speed kills. 100mph can be as safe as 30 in some circumstances and 30 can be too fast in others. Friday for example, with all the black ice about, 30 was most definitely too fast. So was 20 at times.

I've sat at 120+ on the Autobahns in Germany and it was perfectly safe as there was no other bugger on the road at the time.

Trouble with the UK is that there are too many arbitrary speed limits that often go up and down many times over a fairly short stretch of road - in most of europe, they have a simple system.

Towns 50kph (Schools 30 sometimes), open road 100kph,  motorways 110/120/130 depending on country.

I was in Germany a few years ago and they have also brought in smart motorways - got into one down south and the limit was reduced to 120! 

[Pete Lewis]

i think the dry/ wet  two stage limits are sensible , here we avoid plain and simple , the onus is on the driver and old rules /highway code we all read

i said before on a speed aware course a load had no idea what the nation speed limit signs meant 

i firmly belive we should treat all as idiots and make everything plain, big  and in your face , no messing with interpretations on the hoof 

more there it is,  thats what you do,  deviate and  bang  youre  booked .

 we have too many inconspicous rules 

Pete

 

[Weathersbubble]

19 hours ago, AndyTV8 said:

Unfortunately your first policy is always going to be problematic....  both my girls after passing at 17 had their first year insurance on pretty boring stuff, the best insurance-wise and being dirt cheap to run was the C1.

Adding one (or both) of your parents as named drivers on your policy will lower the premium - often by 15-18%.

I think your desire to drive/run an older car while gaining experience is a great idea - including learning to drive defensively, yes, you are still at the mercy of other drivers, but aren’t we all whenever we cross the road? 

Have you spoken (rather than online quotes) to members of the club insurance panel, they may be able to help. But if not, I’d probably go for the boring option, build some no-claims, get another birthday in and then try again - I know that isn’t whepat you want to hear though!

if you do find somewhere do let others know so that they can tread the same path, happy policy-hunting.

last thought, Diamond (subsidiary of Admiral) will sell you a 10-month initial policy and then give you 1 year NCB.... so you get your premium-reducing NCB 2 months early

..... Andy 

I have encountered a fair bit of resistance trying to insure a Herald, but I have stumbled accross an Adrian Flux article from 2016, staring a Morris 1100 and possibly an Austin A40 Farina can be insured at 17 for only ~150 more than a Citroen c1. Feel like I may have to compromise for another BL classic.

[Colin Lindsay]

23 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

Colin,

I thought she had a horse!

Do you need insurance for a horse?

Doug

Yes and yes although the latter isn't a legal requirement, but it's advisable given the number of idiots on the road these days who seem to think that revving their engines to make their cars backfire, or blasting their horns, as they pass is fun...

Having seen the expense, the bother and furthermore the emissions I'll stick to cars.

[Pete Lewis]

Back in the days of pedal cycles and  acetylene lighting my dad along with my uncle half asleep on  enroute luton to hastings ran up the backside of a horse In the dark ,  in the surprise he peddled off and took Dad 5  miles before he caught up 

No idea what transpired but the thoughts of acetylene and horse emissions  could have been  enilghtening

 

[dave.vitesse]

Hope there wasn't any flashback!

Dave