big saloon gearbox and clutch

[Pete Lewis]

for something to do over Christmas I have decided to take the geabox off (with Rays help)  HYA as she can jump out of 1st gear

on these boxes and TR and Stags the clutch withdrawl fork is held on a cross shaft with one of those hatefull screwed taper dowel bolts

many will find these are done up by a gorrilla and struggle to undo, we on mine it was reasonable to release but true to form on these boxes the dowel often

fractures , so   yes mine has , no lost movement i wouldnt have  known  till it gave up completely at some time soon.

the snag is the remaing part is long enough to block removal of the shaft , you cant get in to see . you cant get in to drill. its been sugested drill through the back 

of the fork , and drift the remains out  ,   this sounds a plan but there is a web on the casting makes aligning a back drill nigh on impossible when its still in the housing

im sure i have  to cut the shaft to enable removal and examine on the bench

anyone got  Doctor Who Screwdriver i can borrow  ???!!!

makes a change to write a problem rather than making up solutions    Ha !

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

That's why I married into a family of engineers, I shear a bolt or something won't come undone, off I go to AJM Engineering and a few days later it arrives back ready for reassembly.

Father-in-law is approaching 80 years old and there's nothing he doesn't know about freeing or releasing stuck bits. The unfortunate thing is that he's so exact, he can take up to an hour to determine the thread pitch on a bolt I want a replacement for. 

[dougbgt6]

Pete,

Went to the Dr Who experience in Cardiff with No.1 granddaughter, very good and highly recommended. You wind up in mini play in the Tardis with a thespian and Daleks, quite scary. Bought her a Sonic Screwdriver in the gift shop. Makes a lot of noise and actual screw bits inside, but I don't think it will help you, even if I could persuade her to lend it.

Doug

[Colin Lindsay]

A thespian????

Dr Who and the Thespians.... don't remember that series.

[JohnD]

A Thespian? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!  Bl88dy foreigners get everywhere, Brexit's too good for 'em!

Nhoj

[Pete Lewis]

The fork does have a drift out  hole but so far it doesnt align with the end of the dowel ,

The dowel, should go right through the shaft,  its not obvoiusly moved but  the drift out hole its down a 3mm hole with torch mirror and varifocals

Maybe some xmas tipple will help

Pete

[dave.vitesse]

Pete, When I first saw the Vanguard/TR/2000/Sprint clutch release set-up I thought - "That looks a better engineered arrangement than the GT6/Dolomite/Vitesse set-up". BUT!

I agree tipple will help.

Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

Had some last night , it still wants to play difficult

The Buckeye triumphs has a good tech section all the options andmods developed over the pond are shown in detail 

Its headed ,'and that nasty pin'   !!

And ive got one   by the end of the day me or the pin will win

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

a hot toddy and the blasted thing is out, had to open up the punchline hole ,and a hardened thin pin punch and its off

the shaft has some brinneling on the edge of the dowel hole, .wont order a shaft till ive got a new dowel and checked its  fit

having just rebuilt  a TR6 Box  (effectively the same ) rimmer list TR6 with  a HD throwout release bearing   GRB211UR to replace a std GRB 211

this is odd because both as far as i can see use the same carrier and same pressure plate GCC228 as Gt6 Vitesse,2000, 2500.TR6

altough that shows the std throwout as GRB209   no ref to the uprated bearing

inview of the number of squawking 209s i will look further into what seems misconceived compatibility

unless you know different 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Brinelling, you learn something on here every day!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinelling

Doug

[Pete Lewis]

most are reluctant to  push balls against a hard surface !!!!!!

at least you spelt it correct with the right number of n's and l' 

i nuw wat i ment

heres a link to buckeye  gives some good clues about this sodding dowel

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/ClutchShaft/ClutchShaft.htm

pete

[dave.vitesse]

Pete, the 2000/TR carrier has a different part number than the Vitesse/GT6. So I guess its different

Dave

[Steve P]

Sorry for the hijack but,in my Vitesse 2.5 i have a saloon box with o/d.

It has a TR7 cross shaft upside down.

How long should i get out of a clutch? it has done about 12k on this one but it is becoming hard to engage a gear when its hot,could this be hydraulic?.

I also get a couple of seconds of whining noise when off the pedal from the bearing.

Steve

 

[Pete Lewis]

clutch life is all depenant on driving style an slip times , motorway driving it will last for ever, london school taxi service about 6 months

on the buckeye site there's a lot of comment about std throwouts not lasting long , alleged to RHP , they went broke many any years ago ??

as said TR6 shows a uprated unit but the carriers between TR and Other users of the box seem different even though clutch is the same 

squarks or chippups from the release with foot off is skidding on the fingers , see the buckeye site they have as we suggested on dave claspers vitess to add a spring to keep the bearing in contact, if a light finger touch on the pedal stops the chirrup then it would help if you add a preload spring.

not up to speed with the closs shaft but it seems   a straight hole right through, the dowel being tapered,

its certain if the dowl fractures ( this seems regular failure) then the angle of the arm looses travel, if its a tapere hole and the shafts upside down( how does this work) then the tapered dowel is fighting the tapered bore.  sounds like recipe   for  failure

as this seems  \/ + /\   rather than /\ +/\

if bleeding or hydraulic refurb does improve , start thinking inside may be waving at you

these  slaves are poor bleeders , you can drop them off and hang vertical  to keep nipple higher than when horizontal

just some waffle 

edit, can you engare with engine off, it baulks when idling  thats drag, back to  actuation/bleed or disc  not clearing problems 

Pete

[dave.vitesse]

Steve, Dependent on your driving style you should get many more miles out of the clutch than 12k. e.g. 50k. Not too sure of your modified arrangement i.e saloon box and TR7 cross shaft. However, the whining noise maybe the release bearing and the difficulty engaging gears may be the release arrangement and or hydraulics. Take the easy route first and look at the hydraulics to start with.

Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

the cross shaft dowel hole is definetly tapered to match the dowel bolt   fitting it upside down if thats the case is not good

is you slave lever pointing upwards or as normal downwards 

if the pin fails you can get a lot of lost travel from slight to total loss, the lever should be aprox upright  ||  

 

i will be needing a new shaft the dowel hole is mullered not going to mess about , too much work doing it again later

rimmers list a uprated dowel bolt   unless the std is made from cheese 

Pete

[dave.vitesse]

The TR7 doesn't used the same set-up as the 2000/TR6. It uses a variation on the Vitesse/GT6 arrangement of a fork arm pivoting on a fulcrum pin.

Dave

[dave.vitesse]

Pete, I would talk to Revington TR re parts. They have a lot of experience with the release set-up. Neil Revington worked for MOD QA. 

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

i wonder if i came across him in my QA  lifetime  ???

 

steveP    you say   your   box  is a saloon box with a  TR7  lever on the Crosshaft ...how does that all evolve 

if the 7 has the pin and pressed lever , where what is on steves X shaft   its nothing like that design 

Pete

 

[Steve P]

Sorry ageing memory failure..

Not a TR7- a Dolly Sprint shaft.

52 years old and i cant remember what happened yesterday, let alone when i fitted it all in 2009

Steve

 

[dave.vitesse]

Steve, I can understand things now as the Sprint used the same box as the 2000/TR and to get chassis clearance you have moved the release assembly to the top of the bellhousing. Clutch failure normally manifests itself by slipping. I would first check the hydraulics.

Dave   

[Pete Lewis]

thats good the taper  all go the same way ,  the dowel  bolt can still shear  and loose travel

as  David says do the easy first,  check out the hydraulics and  the  bleeding  bleeding 

also open slave nipple and push slave piston back inside as far as it will go to reduce its capacity and force any trapped air out .

Pete

 

[Pete Lewis]

I use a whole variety of suppliers but for a one stop shop this time I used Rimmer Bros

Placed the order for parts 27th at 1.16 pm  and delivered 8.45am  on the 28th  thats only 19 hours door to door 

All looking good ,   well done 

Pete

 

[Anglefire]

That's pretty good Pete - most of the suppliers I use are closed until 2nd Jan - and the one bit I need to get the rad in is out of stock

[Pete Lewis]

just after a hours twiddling  I decided its time to measure the detent pull loading of the selector shafts and the hub sliding sleeves

well the sleeves on a press  test are ok at 27 lbs ,  just a simple press through test on some kitchen scales  good

the 1/2nd  selector shaft should be  a 27lbft pull, so borrow some fishing scales( spring balance) and its only 14 lbs hence the jump out of 1st problems

early boxes had a threaded spring retainer so you could adjust it , the later cost reduced versions have a 3/8" bucket core plug pressed in ,Not available from any Triumph suppliers but easy on ebay (unless youre Doug !!)  so popped one out ( 1 hour of fighting ) to examine spring and ball , all correct , then it struck me just press the cap in further to compress  the spring,

you can always pack the back once you achieve a setting, as once the top cover is refitted these plugs are against the main case face,  

funny how the simplest ideas evolve after some swearing !!!