dave.vitesse Posted December 31, 2017 Report Share Posted December 31, 2017 I advice is if you keep the 1.5 ohm coil, 6 volt, then you should continue to use the resistive wire. If you wish to by-pass the resistive wire then fit a 3.0 ohm coil, 12 volt. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 31, 2017 Report Share Posted December 31, 2017 Plus 1 on that Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 31, 2017 Report Share Posted December 31, 2017 all this is fine if youre running standard ignition with the normal delco or lucas dizzy and its aged design limitations in how high the HT can go or how much current the points etc. will take but this is not it has a matched pair of 123 dizzy and coil designed to run on pretty much anything you throw at it so if 123 quite clearly state the coil and dizzy you have will run quite ok there is no need to debate , they now more about thier product than we/I do Im for sticking to the basics if the spec say it will........... then thats fine happy new year Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Pete, The basic principles are don't exceed the current rating of the coil. The practical experience is the coil gets very hot with double the current following through it, as a result it can fail and very often does.. If the point of by-passing the ballast resistor is to increase the spark then most reliable way of achieving this is then by-pass the resistor and fit a 12 volt sports coil. The current rating of the 123 dizzy is a separate but important consideration as this should not be exceeded. What the makers appear to be saying is that it would handle double the current. But what I am saying is from both a theoretical and practical point of view the coil will not in the long term. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Dave Im ok with all this , But its their 123 coil accepted by them to perform as they state at 1 to 1.5 ohm it does not require a resistor Its their coil in the photograph the original ign feed will cope with any current increase The 123 coil should not get hot ...its theirs designed for the job to run 12v at 1 to 1.5 ohms Yes a std ballast coil on 12v will fry eggs but thats not what we have here No sign of any lucas, delco,intermotor, parts its all a 123 installation Pete 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Hello Pete, All understood, as you say it should be OK. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Pete, Kevin only says he fitted a 123 and doesn't mention a coil. This info is only discovered from studying the photo. Well spotted! Doug 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 well its a new year resolution...........i tried Ha !!! it wont last long !!! Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Pete, is your message folder full? Sent you a couple recently, you usually respond with something rude, but not received any abuse lately! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 I will dream up some happy abuse Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.payne.15 Posted January 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Guys. Yes it’s a pair from 123 ignition - both distributor and coil. So I think I’ll stick with the resistive wire version but just not wire it up thanks and HNY kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.payne.15 Posted January 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Guys. On an allied theme, does anyone have a decent pictorial wiring diagram that includes the overdrive for a me 3 the one that I downloaded doesn’t have overdrive on it. I’ve looked in the Haynes manual but the colours I have are completely different - what a surprise I hear when I look in my old spitfire manual I have the same colours as a mk 4 ......but it doesn’t show how it links into the loom. thanks kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 This one might be correct... it's been laminated on my garage wall for an age. I've had to resize and crop severely in order to get it to a size where it can be uploaded here but hopefully it's readable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.payne.15 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 colin thanks. I think it matches closer than anything I’ve got. I think one issue is that my white wires are so old and discoloured that they actually look yellow. So when I see a pale yellow wire I’m presuming it’s white where as in this case it’s actually yellow. Thanks. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.payne.15 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Guys. New snag unfortunately! 123 have confirmed that I definitely don’t want the resistance wire which is great. The other mod on the car is that the starter motor has been changed out and the solenoid is now on the side of the motor (club shop purchase) which means I have a tangle of brown cables all connecting into the battery live cable half way down. The one that isn’t connected is the white yellow (I think it’s white yellow but see above it’s pretty hard to see) but it terminates at the same position as the browns so I’m pretty certain. This means the car has been running solely on the resistance wire connection Does anyone know how the white/yellow from the solenoid normally becomes live when the ignition is turned on? If I replicate my current set up in the new loom ( with the resistance wire removed) then I won’t get power to the coil at all! sorry to be a pest but thanks in advance for your help if necessary I do have a wiring diagram that I can share for this bit that matches my car! kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Some pictures of the current install and the wiring diagram could be useful - if no one else has experience of this, I would hope I could help as I am a controls engineer by trade and often have to work out how old stuff works when its been modified by others in the past! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Looking at the Mk 3 wiring diagram, the White/Yellow feeds 12v from the starter solenoid to the coil +ve when the solenoid is activated via the White/Red wire from Pin 1 on the ignition switch. The ballast wire runs from the circuit made live via Pin 3 on the ignition switch. Gully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.payne.15 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 attached is the critical element of the diagram. As per the earlier thread, the pink and white is going to have to be disconnected thanks kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 the Easy way would be to just bridge the pink ballast wire from the switch to the coil - would make switching back to a ballasted system very simple. How easy that is depends on how the junction of the ballast wire to the white switches supply from the switch is created. If it’s a bullet connector, then it could be swapped out for a dual one and the ballast bridged over to the coil spade connector with a double spade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 But if you are dumping the resistive feed you dont need the white yellow link to the solenoid its just not now needed As this as said only feeds the coil when the key is switched to cranking, its totally redundunant when a full 12v coil feed is in place Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 47 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: But if you are dumping the resistive feed you dont need the white yellow link to the solenoid its just not now needed As this as said only feeds the coil when the key is switched to cranking, its totally redundunant when a full 12v coil feed is in place Pete Pete's Spot on. The lead from the solenoid to the coil is the ballast by-pass circuit. Using to place the full 12 volts on the coil when starting. Not require when the ballast is permanently by-passed. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 I thought it was the other way round! In the ballast system the ballast wire is what is normally connected, 12 volts from the solenoid is only connected at start up. The fact that the ballast wire is connected to the 12 volt connection on the solenoid means that it has to be bypassed for the engine to run. Where am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 The ballast resistor is wired between the 12 volts on the ignition switch and the coil. Turn on the ignition and the 12 volts is applied to the resistor and hence to the coil, Due to the load of the coil and the drop through the resistor its around 6 volts. When you turn the ignition switch to operate the starter solenoid its contacts close, and 12 volts direct is supplied to both the starter motor and the coil. This 12 volts is feed from the solenoid to the coil through the white/yellows lead. When you stop operating the solenoid, when the engine starts, then the contacts open and the directly 12 volts is removed and the coil reverts to the ballast resistor for its supply. My head hurts after that! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Dave, Yes that's my understanding of how it works and what I thought I said. I think we are getting confused with the particulars of the GT6 installation, which is what Kevin had. On a late GT6 the resistance is a resistive wire (white/pink) and physically it runs between the ignition switch and the 12 volt output connection on the solenoid, which (yellow/white) in turn runs to the coil. Disconnect the resistive wire and no 6 volts. Disconnect yellow/white and no 6volt or 12volt! Earlier 123 have said the installation will run whatever the system so I guess Kevin having asked us what a ballast system is has not disconnected or bypassed his current ballast wire. But with Kevin's latest revelations regarding started solenoid and now 123 saying "No!" to ballast, who knows! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 im now on apirin box 3 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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