Replacing Sealing Block

[jamesdennison]

Car is gt6 chassis, 2000 engine & spit mk iv body

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but couldn't find in search.

A couple of years ago, with help from Shropshire TSSC group we rebuilt my engine.  On the morning of the build we discovered that the new sealing block / bridge that I'd bought was poorly machined and didn't fit.  I helicoiled the old one and it was re-used.  The guys knew what they were doing so correct length bolts used and everything torqued as per manual.  Nothing stripped.

Engine has been great, but I have a leak at the front which I am certain is due to the sealing block.  I know that leaks are all part of the old car character, and its not catastrophic, but my drive is a real mess and I dare not park it on anyone else's drive because of the telltale oil stains.

The sump will not come off with the engine in situ.  I know this is possible in some chassis / engine configurations ... but definitely not in this case - has been tried.

.... but I reckon if I take the steering rack off I can drop the sump an inch, maybe an inch and a half before fouling the chassis member, maybe.

I'd like to fit one of the steel versions - do you reckon this is possible?  or do I need to bit the bullet and take the engine out ... or get a drip tray 

I look forward to your words of wisdom!

[Pete Lewis]

6 cyl. sumps do come off with a bit of faffing around , get the engine up as high as possible the rack may need to be undone and pushed forwards

then a wiggle and swear and it will drop out

one real stubborn required the oil pump dropping as the spalsh gauze and pump type restricted , uno the pump bolts through the gap and it falls in the sump.  refit was easier as gauze got removed 

do make sure its not the timing cover oil seal  many repacements with plastic surround dont fit the cover well and work rearwards inside the cover ..   

 old trick is , a good dry clean with brake cleaner and a blow of talc will show the line of leakage after a short run.

if the threads in the ally block are ok then its sealer and the wooden wedges thats leaking, the steels are better ,but only if you have to

Pete

[jamesdennison]

Timing cover oil seal is certainly an easier fix if it is that.  I do remember it being hard to press in.  I'll take the cover off and see if it has moved.

[Pete Lewis]

no,  no!  dont take it off ,,  just clean well and look for a leak,  taking it off just makes work ,  prove the leak as a first move, if its remains oil free 

go to next place being the block and sump screws ,  always do the simples first.  

even have a check the engine breather is working ok.

 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

James,

I agree with Pete, the sump WILL come off, I've done it a couple of times. The engine needs jacking up and the sump wiggled and cursed at. You don't mention the wooden wedges, did you replace/ put them back? They are necessary for oil free driveways.

Doug

 

[jamesdennison]

Yes - new wedges went in.

Oil is at the very bottom front edge.  In the pic you can see the gunk I've put on externally ... but there is still a drip.  No oil down the external front of the cover (i.e. under the fan).

I'll check the torques on the sump screws again,  I seem to remember these are "just" tight.

I really don't think the sump will some completely off in situ.  It is an ME engine from a 2000 and a very tight fit.  I should be able to drop it an inch or so and wondered about doing this and getting some sealant in.... but I know this will probably end up getting "involved".

 

[Pete Lewis]

the sump flange on all 6 cyl is identical doesnt matter if its a 1600 or 2500 the only difference is on the big saloon engine its canted to 15degrees  when a   ME base engine is fitted to a small chassis car you have to use the original  flat sump to clear the rack

if its a 2500 then the orig sump needs a hammer to clear the long stroke crank.

they do come off , its just not overly simple , as Doug and I say it needs the block raising and a good deal of strong tea.  

can you drop the sump a enough to get a good full bead of sealer on the flange ??  insde the bolt line , trouble is if the gsaket was sealed it often wont come off cleanly and thats another head ache,   

Pete

[jamesdennison]

Hi Pete,

A bead of sealant was my first thought.  Pretty certain the gasket does have sealant on it so no, it won't come off cleanly.  I'll check the torques first and may then give it a go.

Do you recommend any particular brand of sealant?  On my saab I used a GM product which was eyewateringly expensive for a small tube.  The stuff never sets fully hard.

 

[Pete Lewis]

Ive always used  a cartrige of loctite 574 on many trials on production it was by far the best, 

And with a nozzle you can inject it in hard to reach faces

Sealers  realy its all down to preference 

Pete

 

[jamesdennison]

Spent a bit of time on (well under!) this over the weekend.  I got a "nip" extra on a few of the sump nuts and a bit of a turn on the timing chain cover and front engine plate.  I'm going to give this a run for a while when the weather warms up and see if makes a difference.  Fingers crossed.

[dougbgt6]

James,

What are you?!! Iron man? It's bloody freezing!!

Doug

[Algy]

Often the problem with sumps, is people over torque them and they quilt, more so if a load of sealant has been put on them.

If you do end up taking the sump off it is worth running a straight edge along the flange and do a little panel beating if required to make it flat, also use good quality thick washers (not thin ones that distort), as you want the load to be spread to the swages in the flange, which are there to stiffen it.

I agree with Pete, on putting it togeather use a nice thin (and I mean thin, just enough to make sure you have a sealed line all the way around but not to build any thickness to the gasket) application of 574 both sides of a new gasket.

[Pete Lewis]

Various ways to tin bash the flange to reverse over tightend distortion , I use a small ball pein hammer over the bolt hole and give it a good whack with a hammer so the face gets the dimpled face into a small hump ensures when nipping the bolts you do actually compress the gasket 

Pete

[Algy]

I have seen that done and can be effective, I have also seen the use of extra thick washers with a countersink on one side so that it puts the compression force around the hole. I tend to apply heat and shrink the metal flat the same way as you can a body panel, locally heat to dull red and hammer flat and as it cools it pulls the area under tension and flattens it out. (although never done it on a Triumph sump it has worked well on Fords)

[JohnD]

If I may: 

 

[jamesdennison]

Bit of a thread resurrection, but may help somebody in the future.

In the end I thought I'd try a different external sealer.  I used this stuff https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0051TPIQ6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Fernox LS-X 

It is for plumbing really but it works!

I've used the car a lot this year, probably 2,000 miles + and the oil leak is negligible, 95% success.

Highly recommended.