Maplin

[Clive]

2 minutes ago, 68vitesse said:

Have over six inches of snow here, last time we had appreciable snow was five years ago. Is this climate change or the result of Brexit?.

 

Nope. North Korea. Or maybe Hilary Clinton.

[dougbgt6]

Paul,

Don't mention Asbestos!  A taboo subject, worse to speak about than Brexit. There are those on here who love it, marvellous stuff, best brake pads ever.

The bad weather is obviously down to Pete Lewis buying a snow blower, wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Doug

[68vitesse]

Happy to blame Pete for the snow.

Have used a power sander on old Artex, which contained the A word blown dust which contained the A word of brakes for many years. When at worked been covered with dust when the fire proofing was installed went back to some of them for alterations and refits, men in noddy suits and respirators to remove even a small piece, no one else allowed in the building.

Will reach my three score years and ten in a few months so how much Brexit will affect me perhaps only those with twenty twenty hindsight will be able to tell me.

Regards

Paul

[Anglefire]

Funnily enough I had to do another asbestos training course the other day. 

Problem is that it’s one of those diseases that is delayed by decades. And it’s all about risk. And lifestyle. If you smoke and are exposed to asbestos you are about 50x more likely to suffer from it than someone who doesn’t. 

Something like 4000 people a year die of it. They have been saying for years that it is expected to rise to 10000 a year soon. 

I remember blowing out the brakes of my cars as a kid. Probably asbestos in the early days but who knows?

[Anglefire]

Just found this. Which is interesting from a classic car perspective 

 

• Motor vehicle repair
• Introduction
• Common MVR topics
• Bodyshops
• Mechanical repair
  • Asbestos
  • Hot work on wheels
  • Tyre removal, replacement and inflation
  • Vehicle exhaust emissions (Diesel)
  • Welding and flamecutting
  • Wheel and tyre explosion
  • Working under vehicles
• Roadside repair and recovery
• Resources
• MVR News
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Related content

• Consultation
• Motor vehicle repair health & safety forum

Asbestos

Breathing in air containing asbestos fibres can lead to asbestos-related diseases, mainly cancers of the lungs and chest lining. Cases of asbestos-related cancer have been reported in garage workers, although the risk is relatively low.

In motor vehicles

In the past, asbestos was used in motor vehicles as the friction material in clutches, automatic transmission and brake linings, and in gaskets. The use of asbestos in these components was prohibited from 1999, with the exception that pre 1973 vehicles could continue to be fitted with asbestos containing brake shoes until 2004. Therefore, it is possible that some older and 'classic' vehicles could still contain these asbestos containing products. The supply, possession for supply and fitting of asbestos products to motor vehicle, trailers etc is now banned. Care should be taken when removing an existing component that you suspect may contain asbestos (which must be replaced by one which is asbestos-free).

[Clive]

Ah yes. There has been a debate about this. I reckon half the Triumphs on the road have asbestos clutches. And remember ALL cars over several decades used asbestos brakes. And there was no trail of death by the roadside, and a small increase in asbestos-related deaths amongst professional mechanics who dealt with brakes/clutches every day, often "blowing out" the dust with an airline.

So if/when you change a clutch, do not use an airline, and wash the area down and collect the dirty liquid. I would happily put that down a storm drain. Now the contentious bit. Asbestos brakes are truly excellent. They are as good as mintex 1144 and better than DS2500 when they are cold (not as good when hot though) I have many years worth of quality asbestos brake pads, and will continue to use them. I obviously wash brakes down when working on them. Worth mentioning my first lab job was asbestos analysis, and I fully understand the risks of the stuff. But like most things, the risk is negligible if simple precautions are taken. If I ever sell the car (extremely unlikely) I would remove the asbestos linings and fit something else, so the new owner would not risk exposure.

I have recently been working in a flat, and I had to remove some asbestolux sheets from Victorian doors (they are beautiful after stripping and sanding) I chose to remove the sheets outside, on a breezy day with the wind to my back. Minimal damage to the sheets, sprayed down with a plant mister. Disposable overalls too. Double wrapped in polythene and taken to the local tip for proper disposal. Worth noting asbestos is in Artex up until the late 80's, and in plasterboard to a similar date. Low levels, but I would not be sanding either. Normal dust masks do little to help, really needs air fed or special filters.

[Anglefire]

So called White asbestos is the least worst of the three main ones - which is what artex and the asbestolux sheets I think are made with.

Yes the risk is low Clive, but given many mechanics also seem to smoke, their risks of getting it are magnified - and I do hope you aren't still using asbestos brake linings because it has been illegal to do so for 14years!

But you are right, its fairly easy to reduce the risks further by wetting down etc - though I'm not sure that our local dump would take kindly for having asbestos - it is specifically banned!

[Clive]

When I was doing the analysis work brown was considered the least harmful. But it is all nasty stuff.

The guidance about being illegal refers to businesses, not private individuals. So I am OK. Besides, what about the clutch situation? Or indeed cars that do very little mileage and have 20 year old pads etc?

Our local tip has a specific asbestos bin. They probably think that is safer than people hiding it elsewhere.

[Anglefire]

Yeah is all a bit nasty - but still White is used in many countries.

http://www.asbestos.ltd/asbestos-news/dangers-in-the-dust.aspx

I think white and brown have similar risks actually - based on the fibre being curved rather than straight as it is in blue.

Clutches and little used cars are mentioned in that article (Well the latter is at least, the former can be derived!) - basically treat as if they have and take precautions!

You are lucky Clive - and your logic makes perfect sense!

[Clive]

First time I have been credited with logic!

Onething I did learn on my degree is that most things can/will kill you. Keeping Pigeons? deadly lung disease. Basically anything with small fibres or dust. And as you know, smoking amplifies the risks hugely. I don't smoke!

But the fact that asbestos related lung disease is restricted almost exclusively to those who worked with it, cutting/drilling/grinding etc and the roadside dust from every vehicle does not seem to have any risk associated with it, means I am happy to take sensible precautions. A bit like handling petrol, that can kill you (ie if smoking when using it, that really is an unhealthy habit) but we are all used to the stuff. 

Anyway, back on point. Shops. Our local motor factor "Cliffords of Brighton" is closing its doors today. Rubbish day to have a closing down sale, VERY cold and snowy outside. And people generally not going out. But I have fond memories as a 17 year old going there to buy parts for my cars, and my dad has always been a customer. Even now they recognise me and ask about my dad. Which is rather nice. But their reasons were simple. The site their place is on is being re-developed, and they can't find a suitable site at a rent that is viable within the area. And given it is a family business, and the"lads" are all in their 60's, plus competition from the interweb and the giants like ECP etc, they are throwing in the towel. A shame, as they were he place to go if you wanted to ask about something, rather than order via reg number. Actually, if the chap I am working with cries off today, I may just pop down....see what is still available.

 

(Edit, they are closing Saturday, but I may still pop in today...)

[Anglefire]

We have a couple of motorfactors by us. They were independent for years and were my shop of choice as a kid. But they are now part of the A1 group and although they are still run by the same people it’s not a place I often got to. Mostly because when I want stuff they seem to be closed. They shut on the crack of 5 if not before - which means going after work is a non starter.

[Chris A]

14 hours ago, 68vitesse said:

 

Have over six inches of snow here, last time we had appreciable snow was five years ago. Is this climate change or the result of Brexit?.

Cannot be normal as these days someone else is always to blame.

Regards

Paul

The snow is due to Brexit, us in Europe have declared that we will no longer accept the bad weather that comes in from Britain and therefore have sent it back. we will do the same for the rain. However in a gesture of goodwill any sunshine that makes it over La Manche will be accepted.

[68vitesse]

La Manche? I thought it was the English Channel that kept Europe isolated from the free world in bad weather.

As the Russians used to say (still do?) the difference between us is that we thought we were free whereas they knew they were not.

Regards

Paul

[PeteH]

I KNEW, at some point, it would be suggested (even as a joke) that Brexit was responsible for the "Beast from the East"!

I remember, ( Uncle Albert Story). going to school as a first year, rising 5. In snow so deep it was over my little Wellies and my bare legs where frozen (Short pants)

 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

we will no longer accept the bad weather that comes in from Britain and therefore have sent it back. we will do the same for the rain

That will come in handy for growing the crops we can no longer afford to buy from the EU. 

db

[JohnD]

Careful, Pete, we'll be into Four Yorkshiremen sketches next.

Allegedly, when mother put her out in the garden,  Sunshine being important even on a cold but still day,  I filled my baby sister's pram with snow.   Neither she nor I can recall it, but she's never let me forget!

John

[PeteH]

Hi.

No, A rendition of "Capstick comes home". To the tune of the "Hovis" commercial!.

 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

I KNEW, at some point, it would be suggested (even as a joke) that Brexit was responsible for the "Beast from the East"!

No, Brexit is responsible for 'Emma' (can't remember if it's a storm or a hurricane)which is blowing up from Portugal. If you breathe into the wind you can smell the lemons.

The Russkies are responsible for the 'Beast from the East' so that we'll buy more Russian gas. At least in mainland UK they are.

Over here the lack of a Stormont Assembly is responsible for everything, as when we had a local assembly there were always blue skies and sunshine.

[PeteH]

We, Hardy Yorkshire People, Are not getting "Emma" we are stuck with the Russian Gas!.

[rlubikey]

19 hours ago, thescrapman said:

Remember them? Still got a couple somewhere!

many a happy time going to Westcliffe on Sea to buy parts, when it was their only store.

Ha ha! Me and my mate from Dartford on the back of his Lambretta (or something), through the tunnel and round to Westcliffe to visit "Mappers". Happy days!

19 hours ago, clive said:

<SNIP> Could it be that car manufacturers want to change the cars on the road? make people buy new with the misleading notion doing so will save the Panda's? Who knows.

I think being "green" is about not consuming things. Well, not when you don't have to anyway. There's nobody likes new gadgets & things more than me. But I really HATE things breaking due to built in obsolescence (or crap/marginal/cost-engineered design) - especially when they're designed to be un-fixable. Of course, we're all experts at keeping old things working aren't we!

19 hours ago, Anglefire said:

And the other thing that they have stopped talking about for the moment at least, is particle emissions - diesels are not that good unless they do a lot of things like adblue etc - but the particulates haven't really come down. Why? Because they then found that rubber emits particles too - as does some other things. So they dropped that one pretty quickly. 

You're dead right. I've known about particulates for years. The newer filters remove the larger particles, but it's the smaller invisible particles that do the most damage to our lungs. It was VW-gate which bought nitrogen-oxides to my attention.

Cheers, Richard

[PeteH]

Hi

In the modern Diesels. Larger Particulates are removed by Particulate filters, which are regenerated periodically by running consistently above 600 deg C.  Selective Non Catalytic Reduction (SNCR) basically introduces a reagent at about 1000 deg C (Is normally achieved by injecting small amounts Urea or Ammonia into the system) effectively turning the NOX back to Nitrogen.  Diesels are more efficient in extracting the energy from fuel and overall produce far less CO-2.

The current drive to "electric" is smoke and mirrors, as the electric energy has to be produced, stored and then reused. Each stage has losses. (Newtons Law`s still apply). So the "cradle to grave" "greenness" is extremely suspect. The most efficient Electric Motors, are costly to produce and use substantial quantities of rare earth metals in their construction. It is probable the most efficient form of motive power is by the use of Hydrogen as the fuel, the end product being water vapour. but that will still only reduce not eliminate C-O2. Burning Rain Forest does far more damage than vehicles.

BTW. Tesla`s most likely long term contribution to reducing "fossil fuel use" .Will not likely be the vehicles. But if their "Solar Roof Tiles" are proved effective and long term durable, bearing in mind that all solar panels currently being produced and fitted degrade and produce less power over time. And they solve the issue of storage.

Pete

[Anglefire]

46 minutes ago, PeteH said:

It is probable the most efficient form of motive power is by the use of Hydrogen as the fuel, the end product being water vapour. but that will still only reduce not eliminate C-O2. Burning Rain Forest does far more damage than vehicles.

No that is not true when you factor the whole process of generation and transportation.

https://www.greenoptimistic.com/hydrogen-cars-efficiency/#.WppQWKjFJjE

 

[Anglefire]

Oh and a traditional petrol engine conversion of fuel to useful energy is around 21% - so similar to hydrogen - the only advantage of hydrogen is if it is produced from renewables - and there is no account for their production in the figures!

[Clive]

Of course, producing Hydrogen requires vast amounts of electricity too.

Batteries are indeed likely to be a stopgap solution. At the moment I doubt we can get anything like enough lithium out the ground.I know the estimates are that we have enough for about 350 years at current usage, but there are 2 issues. Firstly, the first amount part of any resource is relatively easy to extract. But it gets progressively harder, with up to half not viable. But the big one is if we are all expected to be using big lithium batteries then we are going to increase lithium usage 100 x ?? plus there are rare earth metals that are likely to run out faster than the lithium.

But as above, I reckon it won't be long before a better solution is found. And there is the ongoing promise of nuclear Fusion, which would solve most problems overnight. We could then produces vast amounts of electricity cleanly, and the fact fuel cells are not too efficient (but I bet they can be made far more so) the fact hydrogen could easily be made at low cost it would not matter.

[Anglefire]

You can't get away from the fact though that hydrogen is not efficient to produce - and goes bang very easily - easier than petrol by a long way. And lithium isn't without its risks either!

Fusion has been talked about for decades. Still hasn't been reliably produced.