AidanT Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Hi All About to replace my very old mild steel return pipe with a hole in it with a stainless steel one - Any one with any advice on removing the old nut and olive? other than being careful! - Any advice do's and dont's etc gratefully received Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Groves Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Do you mean the nuts in items 29~31 in the diagram? If so they are all available and cheap so doesn't matter if they won'y go again. I'd just make sure you get a spanner on in that's a good fit so you don't round it off, other than that just apply as much force as necessary.Never had a problem removing before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I posted on here somewhere that when removing the pipe the hose snapped off the down facing spout of the banjo elbow item 4 all very corroded and past their best . if this happens there is a nice brass one available, but the banjo bolt can be a swine and more than often shears off then its manifold off and much sweat and tears ...luckily mine unscrewed with the fingers after a couple of flats undoing. the adaptor at the pump end you are talking about can be stiff and the sleeve nut may be stuck on the tube so when you undo ,the old pipe goes around with it .. make sure the banjo spouts and the pump adaptor are clear as these do get obstructed with crud pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hello Aidan. I have just completed this job on my Mk2 Vitesse. The actual job was replacing the leaded head for an unleaded unit; hence whilst at it I replaced the return pipe + a new water pump. I had the advantage of having the head off so I was able to dismantle the adaptor (29) from the water pump housing on the bench. Without a doubt it was the original and had been bodged on numerous occasions by previous owners. I used an adjustable wrench to undo 29 and to be honest it needed it !! if you cannot use an adjustable the advice on the correct spanner is absolutely vital - try a few different ones - metric / imperial / whitworth; the fitting has to be spot on !!!! Replacement parts from Canley Classics was the s/s tube / olive / nut (31) and the adaptor (29). With regard to 31 & 29 these are old fashioned plumbing connections and so I used a couple of wraps of PTFE around the threads before refitting the new units. Depending how you are going to do it, I would suggest taking the inlet & exhaust manifolds away from the head as it gives you better access. The exhaust manifold can just sit back away from the head whereas the inlet needs to be taken out of the way. Removing the manifolds is not critical but just eases the workspace area. Additionally do not fully tighten 29 & 31 until the s/s pipe is in position properly so that it's in line with the rubber hose at the banjo end. Once all that is in line you can then fully tighten 29 & 31. Ensure that 29 is fully tightened FIRST before doing up 31. Once all done, replace the manifolds; if you have decided to remove them. It's a job well worth doing and of course copious amounts of Plus Gas will help no end. I've attached a few pics - hope all the above helps ?? Good luck. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hi, Thanks for the info - Is it OK just to remove and replace items 30,31 and 32 leaving 29 in the housing or do I need to replace that as well - I have tried to move 29 with a spanner with no success - so I am soaking it in penetrating oil but if I can get away without removing it that would be good - My only other option will be to cut the old pips and get a socket on it with a breaker bar If I can just leave it and swap out the items 30 31 and 32 then its a lot easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Sorry should have said its Items 30 31 and 32 I'm replacing as the pipe 30 has a hole in it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 In the ideal world it would be best to replace all of it really. However, sometimes that cannot be the case. If you have dislodged the adaptor nut by the slightest amount then it is very likely it will weep, which of course is the very thing you are looking to prevent with any of the return pipe set-up. The other point to remember is that when you remove the old steel pipe you will want to ensure that the old olive is attached. If not then it will be lodged in the adaptor and to be honest you have gained nothing because the adaptor will need to be replaced as you will never get the old olive out. If you can access the adaptor with a breaker bar then I would do that. I can confirm that the adaptor (29) takes a 1" A/F and the pipe nut (31) is 13/16"AF. Needless to say make sure you have a tight fit and do not overlook using a metric or Whitworth equivalent if the fit is better. The advantage you have got is that the water pump & engine block are in situ so you can use that to your advantage as levering goes. IMHO, I would replace the whole set-up; just take your time and the result will come your way. Many thanks to Darren for his sketch upload which has made this thread easy to run !! Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Thanks for all your help - I will purchase the adapter and replace it. Just one more question really - what is tight for the adapter? any torque setting advice? thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 A smear of sealant and a good hand tight is all thats needed on the adaptor the sleeve nut with olive only needs enough to crimp the olive to the new pipe overtightening will only crush the olive and make removal difficult and will probably leak once the pipe nut is nipped it needs about 1/2 turn max to compress the olive and seal it and a squirt of lube on the hose clip spiral makes easy tightening in dificult locations pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 One last small point to the excellent advice already given: use a good length of hose on the short curved section (33 in the diagram); mine is forever cracking and weeping, so I cut a longer length than that supplied in kits and allowed a bit more flex. Make sure these two pipes are in alignment at the bulkhead end before finally tightening up the adaptor and nut at the radiator end, and it will make things so much less stressful on this hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 I know I know I have taken ages ! but anyway all went really easy today, the old Part 29 came away quite easily after a soak in WD40, There was enough room to get the one inch spanner to it and the old pipe gave up and broke where it had rusted and leaked on a previous occasion. Followed all your kind instruction from above and used some PTFE tape on the olive and all is good - I got the stainless steel replacement from Paddocks and it was a little longer at the far end so I don't think I will have a problem with it becoming detached from the hose No leaks and once the thermostat opened - the engine was running cooler than it has previously - not sure why but hey I'm not complaining! Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Awesome - well done. IMHO, I think it's one of those jobs that really need doing now on all the cars bearing in mind how old they are getting. I reckon a high percentage of cars are still on their original pipe and as Canley Classics stated "tamper with it at your peril" - sound advice !! For £20 - £25, a stainless steel unit is money very well invested. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Hi Just some info on using heat for rusted fasteners. I've had a lot of success using heat from a gas torch. (map gas (as burns hot) on a plumbers torch (witch seems to burn well whatever the angle of torch and 5 seconds or so a will get pretty hot) ) and then douse with penetrating fluid (more expensive) or squirt water on it. This seems to crack the joint. If it's particulary stubborn then keep repeating this (My record so far is about 10 times). Be carefull if component has heat damagble parts (seals etc) and also I have not used on suspension fastenings as don't know if it weakens them. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Yes , if you burn anything with Viton in it Things like seals and O rings can be made with this rubber Some head gaskets use this for seal inserts If its burnt it is highly casenagenic and you loose your fingers, there, s no cure Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted April 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Richard Totally agree - In the end for me it was pretty easy - didn't have to strip anything down beforehand other than undoing the accelerator linkage (one nut and washer) Once the hose was off (system half drained to start with !!) I just wiggled it out past the pump housing Hi Dave Often thought about buying some kit like this - can you add a pick of the kit you have? is it a "big" bottle kit with a hose or just one of the portable "spay Can" portable kits? Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Hi Aidan Sorry, not able to send pic. If you google "map gas", there are images of torch and bottle. Hope this helps. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Available as a kit with a torch with interchangeable nozzles. http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p71324 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted April 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Great Thanks - On my "tools" shopping list!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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