Replacing Inertia Starter with Powerlite Hi Torque Starter

[Paul H]

Vitesse Mk2 

Hi replacing the intertia starter with a Powerlite Hi Torque Starter purchased from the Club Shop 

Old starter came out easy enough and there was a main 10mm alloy spacer + 2 shim spacers see pic 

The Starter that came out was a Bosch M35G - 25092D - - The reason for changing is that the starter always seemed to labour despite replacing the  battery and adding a direct earth feed. The Hi Torque will be more efficient in terms of amp consumption and power output ( thats what the bumph said ) 

My question is do I fit the 2 additional shims or leave them out

Thanks in advance

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

keep them in place , my view 

you will be amazed at the cranking difference 

Pete

[Paul H]

Update - Just realised i have a spare engine in the workshop so bolted on  the Hi Torque Starter with the 10mm spacer and prior to fitting measured the "throw" of the starter gear .

The pic shows the estimated engagement on the starter ring which ive estimated at 70% cover of the starter ring - If it needs to be more I will have to reduce the spacer size - hope ive explained ok 

 

Paul 

[Paul H]

Update : Checked on Youtube for Spacers / Shims & Starter Motors and the starter ring to fly wheel ring gear is ok with 50% to 75%  cover so im ok with current set up - The Youtube Video I found helpful is here 

Paul 

 

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Paul

                  I adjusted mine so it got as much tooth engagement as possible.

I also wired mine through the existing starter solenoid as there is a lot of load as the pre engage pulls in and would fry our switches(old pre engage one have a solenoid somewhere)

They do make a funny noise but are better.

Mine has been on the car for 3 years and 18,000 miles

Roger

[Paul H]

Thanks Roger I plan to use the existing starter solenoid as it was the easiest way to connect - I now know why its the best way to connect - learning all the time 

Paul  

[Pete Lewis]

i also used the old solenoid its as you say easiest , one wire and its done 

we did relocate the sol onto the top of the baukhead , rather than down by the manifolds and ...rod throttle on my 1600  and added a heat shield to the end cap as its close on a  tubular 631  ,  didnt want to fry it.,  less of a proximity problem with the cast manifold

you can see the slotted clutch bracket which allows you to raise the  pedal an 1"  and reduce any lost travel.

you  must keep  the push end float or the cyl  wont recuperate

Pete

 

[Paul H]

20 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

i also used the old solenoid its as you say easiest , one wire and its done 

we did relocate the sol onto the top of the baukhead , rather than down by the manifolds and ...rod throttle on my 1600  and added a heat shield to the end cap as its close on a  tubular 631  ,  didnt want to fry it.,  less of a proximity problem with the cast manifold

you can see the slotted clutch bracket which allows you to raise the  pedal an 1"  and reduce any lost travel.

you  must keep  the push end float or the cyl  wont recuperate

Pete

 

Hi Pete - Dont remember seeing the slotted clutch bracket on my mk2 - was this standard ?

Paul 

[Paul H]

Update - Powerlite Hi Torque Starter Fitted 

It will be about a week before I can test and report back 

The copper (ish)  piping in the foreground is the extension bleed valve for the Clutch slave cylinder , and the top cable is an earthing wire direct from the battery - Maybe an idea for Twiddle Day 2 

Paul 

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Paul

                  That is the make I have got fitted to Spitty (factory is local to me so I went to the trade counter and save a bit!)

As I said it has been on for 3 years now and 18,000 miles and no problems at all(its never been off)

Roger

[Colin Lindsay]

Check if your new starter has a drain hole on what should be the underside, but when fitted to our cars becomes the top - on mine, this allowed water into the motor with the result that it seized solid after a year or so of use and had to be stripped and cleaned. Plug it with rubber sealer or the like to keep water out.

 

[AidanT]

Paul

Yours looks to be the same as mine, certainly from the same source!  I checked mine all over and it had no holes as per Colin so should be ok

 

Aidan 

[Pete Lewis]

The slotted  brkt. Is a lewis idea to improve clutch travel   certainty not standard

 

We fitted  one of these unots from genuine vw exchange to a skoda fabia , it lasted 3 days the pinion fell off and 

Locked the flywheel,  the whole assy was a complete bucket full of rust,  previous onwer must have been thebTitanic

Replaced straight away but  they obviously didnt know about colins fill it up hole

Pete

[willis]

Hi everyone, when fitting a hi-torque starter motor, has anyone found that it catches on the lower steering shaft because mine does. If anyone has come across this problem can you please let me know how you overcame it? Also, is a starter for a mk1 Vitesse the same as one for a mk2?                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks, Rob

[Paul H]

Hi bought mine from the Club shop for my Mk2 Vitesse . Fits ok with no fouling . I chose not to use the shims. 

Excellent bit of kit 

Paul 

[Anglefire]

I’m sure they can be rotated by taking off the flange?

[Colin Lindsay]

It's the solenoid assembly that fouls on just about everything, so only allows fitting in one direction only. 

I fitted mine quite a few years ago, no shims, and it's worked perfectly apart from filling with water and having to be stripped, cleaned, greased and reassembled.

[Paul H]

13 hours ago, willis said:

Hi everyone, when fitting a hi-torque starter motor, has anyone found that it catches on the lower steering shaft because mine does. If anyone has come across this problem can you please let me know how you overcame it? Also, is a starter for a mk1 Vitesse the same as one for a mk2?                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks, Rob

Hi Rob - heres a pic of my starter in situ - Ive removed the side valance for refurb - the Hydraulic piping in the foreground is the clutch slave bleed extension which bolts onto the valance.
AS you can see the starter doesnt foul the steering arm - the cables are close but dont touch the steering arm 

Hope this helps

Paul 

[willis]

Hello again, thanks for all your replies, they are all helpful. Special thanks to you Paul for your photo as it made me realise that the starter motor I was trying to use is the wrong one. It must be because it is off a mk1 1600 engine and is therefore different to the mk2 2litre. I've ordered the correct one from the club and should have it by Monday, fingers crossed it'll fit. Anyway, in the meantime it's on with trying to put the rest of the car together and trying to sort all the other problems I seem to be finding at every step. Oh the joys of long term restorations.                   Thanks again to you all,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Rob 

[Pete Lewis]

All 6 cly  be they 1600 mk1 2lt  mk2 2 ltr  uses the same hi torque starter  the base engines are all the same family

2000/2500 big saloon is slightly diferent  again mk1 mk2  are the same 

What made you think it came from a 1600, was it a hybrid made up from seperate parts

Or wrong to part number ???   

Pete

 

 

[willis]

Hi Pete, I don't know where the starter motor comes from because it was fitted to my mk1 1600 when I bought it. There are no labels or identifying marks on it. All I know is that no matter how I try to fit it to my mk2 2ltr, it fouls on either the column shaft or the engine if I try to put it in upside down. Not to worry though as I have taken delivery of a new one from the club shop so hopefully it's problem solved. (once I've figured out how to connect the wiring). I think I should have paid more attention at school and chosen a career in everything automotive. It'd probably have been back on the road ages ago if I had. Ah well, onwards and upwards as they say.                                                                                                                                                                   Thanks, Rob

[Pete Lewis]

as the 1600 and 2ltr engine/starter have identical design if it came off a 1600  it should go back on the 2ltr    whats the difference  very odd

must have the gremlins at work

pete

 

[AidanT]

Oh no... not them again! I hope the new one is not the same! 

Aidan 

[willis]

Hi chaps, tried to rotate the mounting flange on the old starter but I would have had to file part of the starter body away to get the fixing bolts to fit. I'll try to fit the new one tomorrow if I get time and will let you know the results asap. It looks like it will be fine but we shall see. I'm planning on using the old solenoid and assume that the one cable that was on the original starter is the only one I'll need to connect to the new starter from the solenoid. Is this correct? Just noticed that what I'm typing has gone into italic mode. Don't know how that happened. Would post pictures of both starters if I knew how to do it. Isn't technology wonderful? You should see how good I am with the stuff in my everyday car. That's got me baffled too. Thank goodness for kids as they seem to know everything. On a different subject, if anyone needs quarter light window channel runners try Kent Trim Supplies. I bought some for my Vitesse and they are spot on. Very cheap too. Find them on eastkenttrim@gmail.com or phone 01233500280. Hope this helps.                                                                                                                                                                                     Thanks, Rob

[Colin Lindsay]

8 hours ago, willis said:

On a different subject, if anyone needs quarter light window channel runners try Kent Trim Supplies. I bought some for my Vitesse and they are spot on. Very cheap too. Find them on eastkenttrim@gmail.com or phone 01233500280. Hope this helps.                                                                                                                                                                                     Thanks, Rob

It does! There was a debate on these a while ago so it's good to find another source.