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Rocker Oil Feed Kit


Bob Owen
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DON'T DO IT !

 

Unless it is very carefully installed - including blocking off the feed up through the engine block, and installing a flow restrictor, you will rob pressure from the main bearings, leading to premature bearing failure. 

 

You will probably also suffer from excessive oil consumption, with too much oil around the top of the head - the valve guides are not fitted with oil seals, and not designed to be fitted with oil seals, and can cause excessive valve guide wear if they are fitted with seals.

 

Triumph spent a fortune back in the day engineering the engine, and if an external oil feed was beneficial they would have used one.

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Bob.

 

Could not agree more with the points Clive & Kevin have raised.

 

I have a Vitesse and run it hard for long periods - never had a problem with top lubrication.

 

Additionally, I use Millers Oil have done for years and reckon it's second to none.

 

One observation I would flag up is that poor rocker shaft oil feeding can be down to wear on the rocker shaft + rockers themselves.

 

When you say your engine has been reconditioned - did that include the rocker shaft assembly ??

 

If yes that is great - if not then you may wish to check the bushes on the rocker shaft. As they wear, they can move slightly and this then restricts the opportunity for oil to flow & feed as it should.

 

Hope that helps ??

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bob

 

I have to disagree with the other members. I've had an external rocker feed fitted to my GT6's 2.5l six pot for more than 20 years and experienced no problems. In fact after 25k miles the oil pressure sits at 60+psi at 2000rpm. I have not suffered any oil loss through the head either. What it does show is the rocker shaft being well oiled (no pun intended) and consequently less prone to premature wear. 

Althought the Triumph engines are well engineered they do have some short comings- one being rather less than optimal oil pressure in the rocker shaft.

But at the end of the day each to his own.

 

Cheers

 

Alan

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Bob

 

I have to disagree with the other members. I've had an external rocker feed fitted to my GT6's 2.5l six pot for more than 20 years and experienced no problems. In fact after 25k miles the oil pressure sits at 60+psi at 2000rpm. I have not suffered any oil loss through the head either. What it does show is the rocker shaft being well oiled (no pun intended) and consequently less prone to premature wear. 

Althought the Triumph engines are well engineered they do have some short comings- one being rather less than optimal oil pressure in the rocker shaft.

But at the end of the day each to his own.

 

Cheers

 

Alan

 

Alan,

Just because you get 60psi on the oil gauge does not mean that you have 60psi in all the critical areas of the engine - in particular the main bearings.

You may well find that you have starved the front main bearing of oil and damaged it.

There is a lot of information out there about the pit falls of the external oil feed.

Kas Kastner did a lot of research in the 60's and 70's concerning the oil pressure seen at each of the main bearings, and because of low pressure at the front bearing he invented his "octopus" system to bypass the oilways in the block and feed oil direct to the front bearing.

 

For lots more information, just google Kas Kastner Octopus.

 

I would much rather replace a worn racker shaft than replace the main bearings that have been starved of oil - along with the likely crank regrind, but one pays ones money and makes ones choice.

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The interupted feed to the rockers is controlled by a flat on the rear cam journal, so the rockers get a short squirt for each turn of the cam, its not intended to be a full pressure full flow oil supply

its not needed, in many cars the design has supported 40to 50 years before wear takes it toll

there, s little need for any modification to do a few thousand recreational miles if it lasts another 40 years

After a rebuild where, s the problem

 

this has the same myth of oil, drain back.. in real terms it may cause alarm but just look how long the

designs have lasted,

really save some cash put it into fuel and drive the things

these problems are not really problems

pete

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Tony L-D did an article in the Courier a few years back, with his follow up to the research into KK's Octopus. He found there was a restriction in teh oil gallery where it went past the distributor drive, which is what KK and then he was resolving with their Octopi.

 

I think this is only in the 6-cyl cars.

 

Anyway, don't bother with the feed.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

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  • 7 months later...

well i wish i would of read this before ive got said feed but about 3 months ago i was on the motorway sat at about 75_80 in my gt6 mk2 with an engine which had done only 3000 miles and al lof a sudden burning smell ,then knocking its brains out , then the temp went up to 100+ so slowed right down to 50 the temp went down to normal, turned off at the services lifted the bonnet couldnt see any thing wrong so thought damage is done and went on my to newbury plenty of power but knocking its nuts off any way when i got there had a closer look and the block had burned by number 2 cam bearing, so had a machanic look at it he said its terminal so i had it towed back to cardiff. i then stripped the engine down to find one cam bearing compleitly obliterated, cam was stuck in the block 2 tappets stuck (thay did go up and down but were stuck in the block) one piston compleitly wrecked one big end  and two mains down to the copper and well let say thay looked like corse sandpaper one cylinder was blue where it got so hot,  and the oil was burned and black as can be. my oil pressure has olways bee great and even this happened it stayed good. i always had some blue smoke on start up and was told its fine (bronze guides with oil seals on the inlets from chris witor very expensive but none on the exhaust as you dont need them) i think this explains the culprit being the external oil feed to the head !!! THIS ENGINE WAS ROLLING ROADED AND PRODUCED 139.9 BHP. i have just finnished rebuilding another engine 2.5 spec , and have re fitted the oil feed today ,i most surtainly am going to take it off tomommrow after reading whats been said in this post by some members. I think the saying IF ONLY ID KNOWN THAT BEFORE:(  i hope this post gets read as i really do feal that it was the external oil feed is what caused this problem PS the engine had a full service to day before i left for Newbury i traveled about 70 miles into my trip. Cheers all Mike

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12am thats enthusiasm for you ,

 

Mike thats a great unfortunate tale of woe,

 

was it or wasnt it , Ive got arestricted feed kit I took off the Vit6 if anyone wishes to evaluate

Comes with absolutely no warranty and certainly not recomended

 

 

good luck with the replacement engine .

 

pete

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Mike.

 

That is a harrowing tale ands serves exceptionally well as to reasons FOR NOT fitting an external feeder.

 

Hope all goes well with the new engine.

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

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12am thats enthusiasm for you ,

 

Mike thats a great unfortunate tale of woe,

 

was it or wasnt it , Ive got arestricted feed kit I took off the Vit6 if anyone wishes to evaluate

Comes with absolutely no warranty and certainly not recomended

 

 

good luck with the replacement engine .

 

pete

thanks pete  

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A sorry tale indeed, and I hope Mike gets it back together. It set me wondering just how many of the so-called "must do" mods marketed by certain tuning companies back in the day actually worked, or lived up to the claimed "improvement"? I do recall attending club events way back in the eighties when there were mutterings even then about extravagant claims for increases in BHP in some well-known tuning catalogues. I tended to follow John Ks advice when I built my car, on the basis that his mods were being driven around every day by the man himself and clearly worked!

 

Regards

 

Steve-C

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It is so worth repeating, so thank you Mike for telling your sad tale.

 

I wonder, if the TSSC has any weight with the dealers, they should be asking them to stop selling this engine destroyer.

Anyone keen enough to build an engine properly to take an external supply will be able to source and fit the parts themselves, and those who are not should be protected from themselves.

I've just checked and the TSSC Shop sells no engine parts at all, so no skin of the Club's nose.

 

For the next AGM, perhaps?

John

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One came fitted to a performance engine I had built by one of the well know Triumph specialists and I was a little concerned by how much oil it was using.  Thankfully it was a friend's yellow car behind me when I started up and discovered where all that oil was going.  Over-supply to the head, straight down past the valves and out the exhaust.

 

Took it off and been much better since!

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  • 4 years later...
On 23/02/2015 at 11:06, Alan C said:

Bob

 

I have to disagree with the other members. I've had an external rocker feed fitted to my GT6's 2.5l six pot for more than 20 years and experienced no problems. In fact after 25k miles the oil pressure sits at 60+psi at 2000rpm. I have not suffered any oil loss through the head either. What it does show is the rocker shaft being well oiled (no pun intended) and consequently less prone to premature wear. 

Althought the Triumph engines are well engineered they do have some short comings- one being rather less than optimal oil pressure in the rocker shaft.

But at the end of the day each to his own.

 

Cheers

 

Alan

Totally agree with ALAN as stated in another post.

Robbie

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hi 

just reading this thread i too have the kit fitted to my 1600 not by me but previous owner , ihave noticed blue smoke when on  idle for a while and also on after run ,which this thread as answered.

My question is how does the front main bearing get starved of oil if the oil pressure is maintaining good pressure, my take off for the kit is where the low oil pressure switch is and also my oil pressure guage, surely if the pressure remains good through out the system and in all galleries the front journal would be too and not starved.

Darron

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26 minutes ago, Darron said:

My question is how does the front main bearing get starved of oil if the oil pressure is maintaining good pressure, my take off for the kit is where the low oil pressure switch is and also my oil pressure guage, surely if the pressure remains good through out the system and in all galleries the front journal would be too and not starved.

Wherever the oil escapes out of the distribution system the pressure is ZERO psi (relative to atmospheric pressure)

The pressure is at a maximum at the output of the pump, and as it flows through the distribution system the pressure drops, reaching zero at every point that it escapes to flow back to the sump to start its journey again.

If a new "high flow" path is introduced (such as the spawn of the devil external oil feed to the head without a tiny restrictor) then this path will "seduce" the maximum oil flow, and rob all the other escape paths of oil flow.  In the GT6 engine this is particularly a problem with the front main bearing journal, where the flow and hence the pressure drops to near zero even without the external feed to the head being fitted.

Just because the pressure is good at the pump does not mean it is good throughout the entire  distribution network - its a very complex subject !

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Hi KevinR

thanks for the reply as you have said very complex , you mention a restrictor where would this be fitted and what size would the hole or bore be ? To be honest I think from reading this thread this weekend I will be removing the the kit from the car as it’s started to play on my mind though I have had no problems or concerns so far but haven’t done thousands of miles in it just a piece of mind , taking on board you and others wisdom and experience.

Darron

 

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12 minutes ago, Darron said:

Hi KevinR

thanks for the reply as you have said very complex , you mention a restrictor where would this be fitted and what size would the hole or bore be ? To be honest I think from reading this thread this weekend I will be removing the the kit from the car as it’s started to play on my mind though I have had no problems or concerns so far but haven’t done thousands of miles in it just a piece of mind , taking on board you and others wisdom and experience.

Darron

 

The restrictor is fitted up at the connection to the head, and anecdotal evidence would suggest that the hole in it needs to be about 0.5mm in diameter, so very small.

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