Oil filter quality (lack of it) and request for recommendations

[Clive]

Hmm, looking at an adaptor in front of me, there are 10 threads where it fits the block, so a 1/4" spacer or washers could be a viable solution. But on a filter itself there are not usually that many threads (don't have one to hand!)

I guess fitting the adaptor to the filter is viable too,  remember when every new filter cam with a new adaptor?

[rlubikey]

Something stuck in the thread in the block?

Unrelated to the present situation, but back in 1988 or 89, I trotted home with a new filter from the Austin-Rover dealer and did my first oil change on my old Blue Spit. There was a new adaptor in with the filter so I used it. Didn't know why I should but I did! Anyway, came the time to start the engine and I found oil £#""^|*$ out all over the drive. Investigating, I found the filter wasn't seated on the block, even though it was done up tight. It had bottomed out on the thread of the adaptor, not the seal. Taking the filter off, I noticed the new adaptor had a knurled section in the middle, whereas the old one had hex flats - over considerably less length than the knurling. The extra length of the knurling was the problem. In went the old adaptor and all was well, as I cursed BL for their BS cost reduction.

Don't know why I relate that, except perhaps to say that you've got to watch out for the quality of everything. Problems are more common these days, but it used to happen back then too!

Cheers, Richard

[Pete Lewis]

it not a bad thing but there's a lot of us can go back tooooo far   and its getting further every day  Ha!

pete

[dave.vitesse]

19 hours ago, rlubikey said:

Something stuck in the thread in the block?

Unrelated to the present situation, but back in 1988 or 89, I trotted home with a new filter from the Austin-Rover dealer and did my first oil change on my old Blue Spit. There was a new adaptor in with the filter so I used it. Didn't know why I should but I did! Anyway, came the time to start the engine and I found oil £#""^|*$ out all over the drive. Investigating, I found the filter wasn't seated on the block, even though it was done up tight. It had bottomed out on the thread of the adaptor, not the seal. Taking the filter off, I noticed the new adaptor had a knurled section in the middle, whereas the old one had hex flats - over considerably less length than the knurling. The extra length of the knurling was the problem. In went the old adaptor and all was well, as I cursed BL for their BS cost reduction.

Don't know why I relate that, except perhaps to say that you've got to watch out for the quality of everything. Problems are more common these days, but it used to happen back then too!

Cheers, Richard

Richard, Yes I had the same with the Toledo we had back in the 1970-80-90'S.

Dave

[Simon Underwood]

Latest update- I haven't been able to do much this weekend, owing to a family birthday yesterday and a broken toe this morning (the two things are completely unrelated, by the way).

I measured the distance from the sealing ring to the inside end of the thread on both the filter that blew off and the new one from Clive, and they are both 10.5mm, so I'm guessing that perhaps we're not looking at filter inconsistencies. I tried fitting the new filter, and only got about 1 turn this time before it started tightening.

Checking the adaptor length, both the original one and the replacement 3/4" one are the same, so any 5/8" fitting filter, from the Club, Rimmers etc etc is going to have exactly the same issue as the 3/4" ones I'm trying now, as I've found.

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that there must be some kind of an issue with the machining of the block, either the mating face for the seal, or where the adaptor screws in, although it's interesting that the filters used to be supplied originally with a male fitting or an adaptor, implying that the adaptor should be fitted to the filter first.

I'll post another update when I'm a bit more mobile. I'm thinking a couple of washers behind the adaptor, to bring it out a bit further.

Thoughts?

[Clive]

I would screw it into the filter first, see how many turns you then get into the block? Just as an experiment. 

Maybe worth looking at the actual number of threads in the filters, I don't think there are many?

Have you checked the PRV yet? The mystery deepens. Happy to pop over sometime and cast some more eyes over. Probably won't help, but you never know. I will have a look at the "red spit" block/filter face tomorrow, have a measure.

[Simon Underwood]

The toe is a lot better now, so I was able to get Hedwig out of the garage and start to investigate.

The first photo is the 3/4" adaptor screwed into the block. I measured the distance from the sealing face on the block to the outer end of the adaptor, and it was only 4.5mm. Given that the same distance measured on the two filters I had was 10.5mm, this would appear to be the reason the filter blew off, as less than half the threads in the filter would have engaged with the adaptor, and there aren't that many anyway. The second photo is with the adaptor removed.

I tried screwing the adaptor into the filter first, but only got about three turns when when screwing the assembly into the block.

The third photo is a comparison of the new 3/4" adaptor with the original 5/8" adaptor. I've positioned them so that a comparison can be made as to how they sit in the block. What I found was that if I put four washers on the 5/8" end of the new adaptor, that would still give exactly the same amount of thread going into the block as the original adaptor, so that is what I did, as shown in the fourth photo.

I then fitted the filter, and got five full turns on it. Started the car up, no problem, checked the filter tightness, started it again, let it warm up, and the filter was still in place and no leaks evident.

I'm not completely sure what conclusions to draw from this, as most of you don't seem to have had this issue, so any thoughts?

P.S. Thanks for all your help, Clive.

 

[NonMember]

It's a while since I had the oil filter off a four (Toby's needs changing but I was waiting until the engine ran without problems before doing it) but that looks deeper than some. Perhaps this is one of the engines built for the knurled adapter in dave.vitesse's post

Anyway, looks like your fix should do the trick fine.

[Simon Underwood]

There's a thought- I wonder if there was a range of blocks that had been machined differently, and the knurled adaptor was specifically for those particular blocks?

[Clive]

Possible? 

But thank you for posting this. I do wonder if the 3/4 adaptor should indeed be fitted to the filter first? But no info was supplied with them.However, the washer/spacer solution looks sensible and should work a treat. And glad you have got sorted...

[Mad4classics]

20 minutes ago, clive said:

Possible? 

But thank you for posting this. I do wonder if the 3/4 adaptor should indeed be fitted to the filter first? But no info was supplied with them.However, the washer/spacer solution looks sensible and should work a treat. And glad you have got sorted...

I believe the 3/4 adapter WIX 24037 was originally supplied with a filter and so was perhaps intended to screw into the filter first to replicate the original.

I've lined these adapters up as they would screw into the oil filter which indicates the 5/8 threaded part is slightly longer on the 3/4 to 5/8 adapter.

Must have seen the block face with the filter removed many times but I can,t remember if it looks like yours- sorry, will look hard at the next oil change.

David

[Anglefire]

I changed my oil this morning and put the 3/4" adapter on and a Mann W916/1 filter (Eurocarparts about £2.70 after discount) - Its MAHOSIVE! compared to the old one  

The length of thread into the block with the old adapter is tiny compared to the 3/4" one! Half as many threads at best! I did check how long the hole in the block is - and its very deep - longer than the new adapter.

 

[Mad4classics]

On 6/2/2018 at 11:40 AM, Anglefire said:

I changed my oil this morning and put the 3/4" adapter on and a Mann W916/1 filter (Eurocarparts about £2.70 after discount) - Its MAHOSIVE! compared to the old one  

The length of thread into the block with the old adapter is tiny compared to the 3/4" one! Half as many threads at best! I did check how long the hole in the block is - and its very deep - longer than the new adapter.

 

Selecting Spitfire through this American site  https://www.rockauto.com/ throws up a few alternatives; including MANN W920/17 which as far as I can see appears to be the same (read just as MAHOSIVE) as W916/1, apart from the case colour.

Among others, it also throws up this WIX 51312 filter, which I think is the one which is supplied with the 5/8 to 3/4 adaptor and WIX list the Spitfire as a direct application of this filter on their website.

You beat me to an oil change since my oil is still at the local Fedex depot and won't be delivered till tomorrow. Do'oh was going to do that today.

David

[dave.vitesse]

My only guess it comes down to the oil filter. I used a Halfords HOF200 with the larger adaptor.

Dave

[Anglefire]

I picked the MANN for a couple of reasons - 1) @rogerguzzi had used one on his Spitfire, and 2) it was very cheap from Eurocarparts  Oh and it has good none return properties.