rogerguzzi Posted August 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, rlubikey said: Roger, I'll check the number of splines - I quickly counted 12 around from pin hole to hole and doubled. I'll report back tomorrow. Other than the number of splines (and the roll pin) mine seem *almost* the same as OE! Cheers, Richard Hello Richard The OE ones have 24 splines its just my chocolate factory ones that have 25 splines I think I will ring Fitchetts tomorrow and ask them were they get theirs from and the have a drive over(only about 30 miles) and take the failed one to compare and if they look different I will buy 2 and maybe chase the other supplier for my money back as trading standards would say they are not fit for purpose! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 Let me know if they have early GT6 versions, and how much - I need one urgently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted August 17, 2018 Report Share Posted August 17, 2018 Confirmed - 24 splines. Note that my failure was due to a loose nut allowing the hub to move. Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted August 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2018 17 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Let me know if they have early GT6 versions, and how much - I need one urgently! Hello Colin He said he has the shafts short and long(same as Spitfire) but not made up units Roger ps I bought 2 long ones and on box it says made in UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 17, 2018 Report Share Posted August 17, 2018 Not made up as in no yoke attached, or no bearings / hub? I just need the yoke and shaft. Do you know how much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted August 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Not made up as in no yoke attached, or no bearings / hub? I just need the yoke and shaft. Do you know how much? Hello Colin It is just the shaft with yoke attached my long ones were £69.50 each and he said he has the short ones as well Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted August 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2018 Hello All I rang Fitchetts today and he said their shafts are made in the UK. So I had a run over to have a look and they appear much better than my chocolate factory ones! So I bought 2 @ £69.50 each inc VAT Now at home I have had a good look at them and the splines look as though they have been rolled onto the shaft and the yoke machined faces are blued which suggests they have been heat shrunk on and you can see the heat treatment colours on the shaft. The splines also engage into the yoke by an extra 0.125” So over all they look much better and fit for purpose. I have stripped the other old one down and the yoke just tapped off after removing the roll pin and you could see the freting on the splines! So it was a disaster waiting to happen Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Caswell Posted August 17, 2018 Report Share Posted August 17, 2018 Is it me or has the new shaft got a roll pin ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted August 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Ben Caswell said: Is it me or has the new shaft got a roll pin ?? Hello Ben Yes but I suspect this the best we can hope for! it is only belt and braces after all. Plus they look much better than the chocolate factory ones and one did 5000 miles in 12 months!(which sadly is more than most do in several years!) Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Caswell Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 Hmmm I'm not an engineer(well only self taught) but work on the Colin Chapman theory, "If it looks right it probably is right" That don't look right to me. PS my editor says those pictures I have already are OK so thank for that. Regards Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 I don't see an issue with a roll pin as long as the wall thickness is suitable and the material is suitable for the job - a circle is immensely strong if supported on all sides - and these should be fine - the shear load is between the shaft and yoke - and the gaps, given they have been shrunk on, will be small so still strong. Looks good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Caswell Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 Surely the drive shaft will try to push and pull within the yoke as a roll pin by its design is not a full circle and will compress as it is a sprung open "C" shape closes. I agree that if the yoke is shrunk on it is less likely to move but it is working against push/pull loads. The original Triumph shafts had solid pins I would have though they would have used roll pins if they were suitable as they would be easier to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 And the solid pins were some heck of a fit , ive never managed to remove one when atempting to reclaim a yoke from scrap shafts Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: And the solid pins were some heck of a fit , ive never managed to remove one when atempting to reclaim a yoke from scrap shafts Pete Been suggested on the Triumph Experience, by someone with significant experience and expertise, that the OE pins are tapered........ which would suggest that if you guess right there is some chance of getting them out, and none if you don't! This fits with my average of one hit, one miss - though unlike me to get lucky first time! I DO NOT consider that style of roll-pin (slotted spring pin really) adequate. If the spline fit is not tight enough to hold things, it is completely useless as a safety feature. A proper, heavy duty spiral roll-pin would be very much better, inexpensive and easy to install, though still not as good as the OE solid pin. Remember that this potentially stops your suspension from collapsing......... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 Because of the freting/movement Roger observed, I suspect the "chocolate" shafts did not have the yoke shrunk on - or if they did there was a machining error and the shafts were too small or yoke too big. As for roll pins, a tube is indeed very strong indeed ... until you put a dent in the outside, then much of the strength evaporates. Any movement between the shaft & yoke will do just that, and then it's just a matter of time until the that action snips the roll tube in three, as the intrepid Herald team in Outer Mongolia (or wherever they were) found out. By the way, I'm *not* a mechanical engineer! (My employers think I'm an electronics engineer ) Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted August 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 Hello All But to my eye they look good ok it has a roll pin but I think we are getting hung up about this as most Triumph ones never came loose they chewed the shaft or snapped before the yoke came loose! Plus most people will not give them a hard life unlike the spotty youth we all were!(what is the average mileage for a classic car per year? 500,1000,2000 or nutters like me 5000+)and at low speed and no strain! Roger ps TSSC run in the planing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 I agree coming loose wasn't seen as a recurring problem with the original Triumph shafts. Thoughts - A repro problem or They are just old or Too much boot. More likely a repro problem. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerguzzi Posted August 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 Hello All I just had another look at the photo off the one that failed in the back of beyond to the herald pair and to me it looks the same type as I have had fail you can see the splines are bigger! I hope their spares are not chocolate factory ones! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Cooper Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 17 hours ago, rogerguzzi said: But to my eye they look good ok it has a roll pin but I think we are getting hung up about this as most Triumph ones never came loose they chewed the shaft or snapped before the yoke came loose! Plus most people will not give them a hard life unlike the spotty youth we all were!(what is the average mileage for a classic car per year? 500,1000,2000 or nutters like me 5000+)and at low speed and no strain! Perhaps the Triumph ones never came loose because they had the 'belt and braces' solid steel drive pin, not a roll pin?. I'll be the first to admit that I know nothing of the engineering principles behind this issue but I also know that Triumph rarely over-engineered their assemblies and so I would not be happy with the Fitchett's shafts either. You may be a careful and sedate driver Roger and I respect your choice, but I would be seeking something as good as OE or as near as possible. The problem is that we are all getting too used to accepting substandard replacement parts. Poor quality rubber parts are one thing, but elsewhere on this forum (or might be Sideways) there is a thread about problems with repro brake callipers that give a long pedal travel and there is one reply that proposes the solution that you just need to remember to pump the brake pedal before you need to use it. I know that the argument goes that the suppliers are trying to keep prices at the low level that they believe we will be prepared to pay, but this only leads us in a race to the bottom. We need to be less British and to complain and let the suppliers know that price is not the only criterion. It is good to see that you are already doing this with the company who supplied your drive shafts Roger, and I will be very interested to hear what their response will be. I would say that there is a strong argument for a recall of these shafts which are demonstrably 'unfit for purpose'. I am genuinely worried that these cheap repro parts will be the achilles heel of the classic car world, especially with the crazy mot exemption, and that wheels falling off and dodgy brakes etc. will be the reason all our old crocks are finally limited to restricted use or forced off the road altogether. Sorry, rant over. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 The TRR had proposed a "Gold Standard" scheme by which they would certify parts as good quality, but it fell down on the extensive "Which?" style testing that wwould be needed and the cost of that. Next best is to publicise shoddy products, as widely as possible on message boarsd and in club journals. Britons are usually frightend of being specific about the supplier of shoddy goods (unlike Americans!) but they need not be, if they can demonstrate inferior performance, as in this case. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Perhaps a thread listing parts, supplier and performance, moderated carefully to ensure no 'legal' problems. A single post to search on, no chat or thread drift just the facts. Not sure if it would work or the mechanics of input but worth a thought. Something like... Spritfire MkIV 1300-Drive Shaft-John Smith Ltd-Dangerous, not assembled correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Back in the 1960's one in four of the cars on the road was a Triumph. Most were Herald's and including exports over 500,000 Herald were produced. If you then include Spits, GT6, Bonds and Vitesse there were a lot of swing axles Triumphs on the road. The problems with the rear halfshaft wasn't a reoccurring problem. The shorter life of the U/J's when compared to other cars was but that's another story. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Badwolf said: Perhaps a thread listing parts, supplier and performance, moderated carefully to ensure no 'legal' problems. A single post to search on, no chat or thread drift just the facts. Not sure if it would work or the mechanics of input but worth a thought. Something like... Spritfire MkIV 1300-Drive Shaft-John Smith Ltd-Dangerous, not assembled correctly Too many legal complications, particularly if a supplier reckons it's not his fault but someone along the line who fitted it, or the vehicle usage. (Remember the threads on 'modified' cars? Was the shaft designed to take an uprated engine, if built to the standard required for a factory-correct car?) We couldn't take the risk of legal action, particularly if someone wanted to be malicious or simply mischievous. This is why it's always easier to praise good service than damn poor suppliers - less risk of legal fallout. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Colin - True, but praising good suppliers doesn't get you killed!! It's not a case of damning poor suppliers but the products that they supply. More criticism of faulty goods used in the 'correct/normal' manner might make supplier think twice about stocking something cheap, cheerful and deadly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 In my view Colin is right it's the legal bit you have to be careful of as the supplier has bigger pockets than most customers. Of course if you have faulty items send items back and see what response you get. Even if it is poor quality you must let the supplier have their say. Talk to other club members at area meetings and see what their experiences are. Swap notes. Don't slag off a supplier on any forum. Their is a legal process for redress. But it doesn't stop poor quality goods from still being produced. Stop buying items from that supplier. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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