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*$*$ Drive shafts


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While I appreciate the comments about legal problems etc etc, my comment have been made due to the worrying postings on this thread about iffy drive shafts and also on another iffy brakes. No doubt tgere are many more about substandard, none life threatening parts. We appear to be talking about spares bought in good faith at full price from legit suppliers, not some farflung counterfeits off internet auction sites. At what point do the exectutors of dead drivers send back the faulty spares to complain? In all seriousness, dangerous spares need to be stopped somehow before they cause injury. The exemption from mots make these dangerous parts even more so. Rant over.

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On 8/20/2018 at 9:25 AM, Badwolf said:

Perhaps a thread listing parts, supplier and performance, moderated carefully to ensure no 'legal' problems. A single post to search on, no chat or thread drift just the facts. Not sure if it would work or the mechanics of input but worth a thought. Something like...

Spritfire MkIV 1300-Drive Shaft-John Smith Ltd-Dangerous, not assembled correctly

IMHO, Badwolf, that's the way to get sued.

A warning of faulty goods should include a description of the product and the circumstances in which it proved faulty.   NOT, "This XYZ is a bit of rubbish,  don't buy it from Dodgy Motors Inc.!" or any other opinion, but a report on the incident, in the style of a witness statement.    The poster should also incude their complaint to the supplier and the supplier's reply.    

To get that, it would be worth saying to the supplier, "I shall be writing to "TriumphsUnited" magazine about this faulty item, and will be glad to include your response."

No one can get sued for saying, this happened, this was the state of the item.    They can for saying that DodgyMotors Inc. are snakeoil salesmen.

JOhn

 

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Hello All

              I am not going to say any more in public until I hear back the supplier and his/her supplier you all know what I think of the product and I agree with most of your comments but I like living outside prison and still owning a house etc

But watch this space as they say I want answers the money is of interest it is the safety of all of us that is more important!

Are there any legal people on this forum who would give a bit of advise off line? in case it gets nasty/serious?

Roger

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Lets be honest, a company will not sue if somebody makes a factual comment that is true. Because they will loose.

If Mr X made a statement saying "these driveshafts bought from supplier Y are potentially dangerous as they are not correctly made" the supplier is not being slandered, it is a factual statement. If the supplier decided to take MrX to court, they would need to prove the statement was not true. And in this case, they would have an impossible task. 

I had to return a new rear spring the other day. I shall not name the supplier as it was dealt with correctly. In my case the springwas on the car for 1100 miles. During which time the rubber bushes totally deformed, and the spring sagged to the point where it was much lower than the 50 year old one it replaced (which still has the OE bushes in fine condition!) The shape of the spring was also incorrect, most of the curve was in the middle, where it gets flattened on the diff. The outer parts were entirely straight. I am now worried where to find a quality spring....

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It seems to me that we need to publicise the features of the known-good and/or known-bad parts so that members can ask the suppliers when they are about to make a purchase. This will help members, and focus the suppliers' minds on quality over price.

The most obvious characteristic of the shafts is the splines which have been rolled, not machined. We also know that the yoke is heat-shrunk on, but this cannot be visually identified in the finished product. Anecdotally, we believe the material used for the shaft is EN24. We don't know if the bad shaft yokes have been shrunk on badly, or not at all, or if the machined splines are liable to deformation nullifying the heat-shrink process.

In the case of the rear spring, most of the arching is in the middle. The poor rubber buttons are not easily visible and even if they were, we don't know if there is any visible difference. In the past (20 years ago or so) it had been mentioned that poor quality springs had square ends on the individual leaves, not tapered and rounded - I don't know if this is still the case today or if perhaps the poor quality manufacturers have added this visual cue of "quality"

No suppliers have been mentioned, but its a (potentially growing) list of what to ask for before handing over your money.

Cheers, Richard

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I agree.  As regards naming suppliers, in many cases there isn't much point as far as product quality goes they are only moving on items made by others and the same items are available from most, even all retailers.  How they deal with it is between you and them.

What is worth doing is making it known to people that there are problem parts out there, what the issues with them are, how to identify the parts affected, and how to check for problems.  As Roger's experiences and pictures show, together with the pics from the Mongolian rally boys, this could actually prevent serious mishap.

Whatever else happens, you, the frustrated and inconvenience customer need to feed back to your retailer so that 

- you can have your problem dealt with (replacement, refund - whatever)

- just as important - they know that there is an issue with the part.  IF you know others are having similar problems, TELL THEM.  They may say that no one else has complained, but VW/Audi were saying that about high oil consumption issues in the UK, even after they'd issued recall notices for the same defect in the USA......

Nick

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4 hours ago, clive said:

Lets be honest, a company will not sue if somebody makes a factual comment that is true. Because they will loose.

If Mr X made a statement saying "these driveshafts bought from supplier Y are potentially dangerous as they are not correctly made" the supplier is not being slandered, it is a factual statement. If the supplier decided to take MrX to court, they would need to prove the statement was not true. And in this case, they would have an impossible task. 

Firstly, they'll threaten with all sorts of reciprocal legal action, and they can actually drag proceedings out for some time before having to back down, if indeed they even do. This costs the punter loads of money for solicitors and legal fees, whilst the supplier usually has Insurance covering claims that will pay for it.

If you claim the shafts are not correctly made, then you'll have to prove it - this will involve extensive tests and expert opinions as to the metal content, the manufacturing process, and the subsequent assembly. If you say they failed in use, you'll have to prove your car was standard and unmodified, as the parts were made for the factory-spec vehicle, not one that has been uprated or modded to a point where there was more stress on the part than originally envisaged. You'll have to prove that this fault is in ALL the parts, not just the one you purchased, and that it was being used in a manner for which the car was originally designed ie driving, not racing or rallying, or attending any car run, event or rally. 

The supplier does not have to disprove the statement. They're not the one making it. "He who alleges must prove"...and usually must pay for the privilege...

Welcome to the wonderful word of consumer law.

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Hello All

                An update on the out come.

                This is the latest offer I had said yes to the refund but it was not so much about the money but the safety aspect!

Hi Roger,
We have now had an update from the supplier.
They have examined two shafts in their workshop and for both, the yokes were firmly attached to the shaft. They agree that the pinning could be more substantial and will discuss this with their supplier. Furthermore, we and our supplier have had no other notifications of similar problems from our customers.
We are not aware of any other suppliers for this part, so we cannot supply anything different.
The shafts are now out of the 12 month warranty period, but in this instance we would be happy to provide a refund which would be £69.50 + VAT per shaft, which is £166.80.
 
If this is acceptable, please could you let me know and also how your would like us to make the refund.
 
Regards, Paul.
 
They are sending the refund but have asked were I purchased the new ones as they are always on the look out for better products!
 

           A bit more information I spoke to Fitchetts to check it was ok to tell the other supplier were I purchased them and he said that was ok and thanked me!

But the interesting bit he said they are made in Birmingham! that gives me more confidence than China or India (escaped Brummie)

Roger

ps anyone want 2 driveshafts with sliding yokes?

 
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25 minutes ago, rogerguzzi said:

 

ps anyone want 2 driveshafts with sliding yokes?

 

Does this mean you can widen the track at will? :)

Well done for following up the defective parts, and thanks for letting us know. It's always nice to see a supplier offering a refund; yes it's easy to be cynical about it but they're making the effort and while you could interpret some of their reply as legal-speak - we have not had any other complaints and yes the pinning could be more substantial (but before we knew about any problems it was adequate) - they're at least making sure the customer isn't out of pocket. 

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1 hour ago, rogerguzzi said:

ps anyone want 2 driveshafts with sliding yokes?

What - and have Triumph 2000 / TR6 / Stag drive shaft bind powering through the corners? No thanks!

Yes, well done Roger. At least you got some small recompense for all the time and effort. And maybe word of this problem will start to percolate around the trade.

When Fitchetts said Birmingham, I wonder if they meant Coventry?

Oh, and it's telling isn't it; "We spoke to our supplier. They will discuss with their supplier." What a tangled web they weave!

Cheers, Richard

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