6 cylinder rocker shaft end caps, removal

[daverclasper]

Cheers Pete.

Was hoping it was sludge, as not heard of worn shaft causing this before, though it makes sense. Tyres and brake discs are a priority at the mo, so a bit pushed to buy a shaft for a bit.

There is some oil getting there and hoping the camshaft and followers will be getting enough through crank splash?.

Will clean the parts with solvent anyway and fit back on for now I was thinking. Should be able address it properly in about six weeks.

Should it be ok for now?.

Ok to use that split pin I mentioned for now do you think and will look out for a couple of better fit ones for the near future rather than original (I always get a bit anxt tapping tight pins in), when get new shaft.

Sorry if this is dragging on.

Thanks, Dave  

Edited July 10, 2018 by daverclasper

[Pete Lewis]

Im surs it will last for ages , at least you know what state its in, for when you decide

Theres a lot worse out there running ok , 

Pete

[daverclasper]

Thanks Pete.

Old school (not that your old) experience and knowledge is hard to find and invaluable.

Dave

[daverclasper]

Apologies. Need to correct a bit of above. I mean't to say 11 rocker adjuster, ball sections have a slight flat edge. Not the top of pushrods.

Dave 

[NonMember]

I think the answer given still applies - the slight flat aids oil retention in the socket at the top of the pushrod but isn't essential.

[Pete Lewis]

it also allows the whole spherical to make bedded in contact without some relief it would sit on its top  and not all around the ball surface

Pete

[daverclasper]

I noticed the horizontal shallow, scrolls? have worn down to non existance on most of front of shaft and the bore surface of one rocker had worn so much there is quite high relief area of the original surface  in a shape that corresponds to the vertical scroll.

A few more rockers are now not dribbling oil out of top holes but there is quite a fast dribble of oil running down from my split pins at each end cap where they are a tad small.

Ok for now I guess?.

I don't know if for the future, to buy just a new shaft and use some of the better rockers along with a few second hand ones I have that seem ok, or is this likely to muller the new shaft that may not be of good quality anyway?.

I could buy a complete new assembly if they do them for Mk1's, though I am wary of possible dubious quality?.

Any advice on this please.

Thanks, Dave 

     

[NonMember]

I think I would replace the split pins with something more like the correct dowel (Mills pin?) as leaks there will have a detrimental effect on the rocker lubrication.

I don't recall there being scrolls on the rocker shaft. Are you sure they're not just tell-tale marks from the springs? Or am I misunderstanding you?

[Pete Lewis]

rimmer bros stock the mills pin  500975 £1   order today and solved tomorrow 

the triumph hardware catalogue doesnt show   it to give you a size ...or anything else  when you need it 

the shaft does have scrolled oilers

[Pete Lewis]

think whilst its all a bit sad its button it up and await a replacement  in the near future ,  

test the fit of the rocker by fitting it to the unworn part of the shaft and assess its good or............ rattling good fit

Pete

[NonMember]

48 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

the shaft does have scrolled oilers

I thought they were flats, not scrolls. That photo looks like flats.

[Anglefire]

I fitted a new Moss honed rocket set to mine last weekend and the split pin does nothing for oil retention on that - there are effectively grub screws in the ends to keep the oil in - and they have holes and slots around the rocker area for the oil to lubricate the rockers themselves. 

[Gully]

1 hour ago, Anglefire said:

I fitted a new Moss honed rocket set to mine last weekend and the split pin does nothing for oil retention on that - there are effectively grub screws in the ends to keep the oil in - and they have holes and slots around the rocker area for the oil to lubricate the rockers themselves. 

I bought the standard rocker shaft from Moss for my GT6 - set up sounds identical. (Same part number for the TR5).

Gully

[Pete Lewis]

mk2 shafts dont have the pinned end caps they can be plugged or screw plugged  ,  but without shortening /modifying  wont fiit a mk1 engine 

the oil holes are not a full scroll but have a amount of relief to aid lube escape.

[daverclasper]

 

Thanks. One of the mills pins was very tight to get out and I thought maybe new ones even harder to re-fit, so I was hoping for an alternative.

Will have to bite the bullet I guess.

Cheers, Dave

[Pete Lewis]

With the end cap supported on a solid base/ vice or whatever they should tap in with a hammer

Or bigger hammer   or even bigger hammer 

If you have a decent vice it could be used to press the pins in

Probably fitted by girls on the engine  dress  ...with a fly press !!!

A spirol roll pin may be an option its getting the size is the problem.

Dave you buy a new pin and measure it ....let us all know    Ha !!!

Pete

[daverclasper]

Hi. Have ordered new shaft and mills pins from Paddock's.

Have replaced the split pins with the original Mills, with the shaft in situ until I have time to do it properly. They tapped in with lowish use of  medium sized hammer, about the same as most roll pins Iv'e done before (wouldn't have gone mad in case of shaft/pedestal damage).

Maybe hard to gauge unless you did it your self, but are they likely to stay in and if not what likely damage would it do.

Will let you what the new pins measure.

Thanks, Dave      

[Pete Lewis]

Dave the caps seal the oil feed , and stop the end rockers from walking off the shaft  the cap cant go anywhere its too big

the pin could drop through  the pushrod gallery , sit in a cam follower or end up in the sump

But im sure it would  just sit on the head where it falls ... if it ever did that

Dont worry too much when you rebuild  use a vice to press the new pin in ...off the car 

Pete

 

[daverclasper]

Cheers Pete. I thought as long as there was some reasonable friction on tapping in it would be ok.

I have done some daft things in the past, so a bit cautious.

Thanks, Dave

[Pete Lewis]

we have all done daft things in retrospect,  its the learning that goes with it thats invaluable

the pin does not do a lot of work   simle tap fit or press with the vice jaws and it will stay put for years

think you're worrying over nothing  ,  its a simple design put together by simple folk in the factory  yes some simple tooling to control the job but 

the operator bashed out hundreds a week without any sleepless nights .

Pete

[daverclasper]

My new Mills pin/s measure 3.2mm/0.125984" if that's use for anyone in the future.

The new shaft is blanked off at each end just inside of the pin holes, so split pins could be used I guess, if that's useful for anyone who has to do this job.

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

Dave    do make sure the new shaft is the  same length as the old one 

just a thought as normally mk2s  have a blank /plug  mk1  use the end cap   the mk2 is longer shaft and wont fit inside a mk1 rocker cover

both have a pin hole  mk1 mills pin  holds the cap on ........ mk2 it has a split pin in the end next to the encasing pedestal    

many sell  get the shafts mixed up in the  parts bin or ....tell you theres only one   !!!!!!    rubbish

 

sorry cant find any good pics of the two assemblies , even the WSM is firing blanks 

Pete

[daverclasper]

Cheers Pete. It occur to me that maybe a Mk 2 shaft due to the blanking off and therefore use of pin. I had the rocker cover off today to compare lengths due to what you said earlier on in thread. bit hard to compare with the caps on. Looks like new could be up to 4mm longer, though not sure even if it is longer.

Paddocks (where I bought it) show same pic for both shafts. On Rimmers, there's different pics and the pic for Mk1 has a groove a few mm from each end, Like my new one, though don't know if this means anything anyway, as what's it for?.

What difference about in length are we looking at, do you know please. Cover is now back on and won't be able to see if shaft fit's inside cover.

I will ring Paddocks just to confirm it's correct.

Thanks, Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

sorry i dont remember it was a while ago   and it was not possible t fit the RCover

so got the Tee shirt but dont remember the fine print , having mk2 pedestals might have complicated the fit, 

but had to use mk1 pedestals and fit a screw  and washer in the end  to contain the end rocker

no recollection of any flats   do  they align with the pedestal bolts to stop the shaft  rotating  ???

Pete

[daverclasper]

Hi. I intend to fit the new rocker shaft this weekend.  Will be replacing a few of my worst rockers second hand items. Will use my original adjusters and keep them marched to the pushrods. will the second hand rocker pads need to bed in to tip of valves.  If so, should I check valve clearance every 1000 miles or so, for a while?.

Thanks, Dave