WHEELS & TRACKING

[Guest]

Hello.

 

This is in relation to my Mk2 Vitesse. 

 

1. The car is currently running 13x6 JJ Superlite wheels which were on the car when purchased. Tyres are 165x13.

 

I'm looking at replacing these Superlites for some Minilite style wheels. Taking in to consideration I'm using 165 tyres, do I really need 6JJ wheels or will 5.5 be sufficient. 

 

The tyres will be replaced in due course and I will be sticking to the 165's rather than go up to 175, which will be a bit close to the bodywork for my liking.

 

2. Additionally, I'm going to get the front tracking adjusted as I have replaced the track rod ends and it's likely that the tracking was probably out to start with and even more so now.

 

I have the figures for the front tracking, but does the front need sitting weight or is that really for the rear ??

 

I'm happy with the rear tracking, which will be checked again when the CV driveshaft work has been undertaken.

 

I would be grateful for views on 1 & 2.

 

Thanks.

 

Richard.

[Guest]

Sorry, I should have added that the tyres are actually 165/70x13

 

Thanks.

[Darren Groves]

I have the same tyre on 4.5j steel wheels, though I believe 165's are better suited to 5j, 6j sounds a bit too wide really. There is a selection of useful utilities on this website: http://www.mintylamb.co.uk/ however it's not actually working at the moment, but keep trying. Fitting the same size tyre on a different width wheel does affect the rolling radius, so even though we have the same size tyre the rolling radius will differ, which of course affects your speedo reading.

 

Tracking should be set with all for seats loaded with around 70/75kgs. If you search this forum it has been explained by our resident guru Pete Lewis....

[Clive]

Front tracking is easy to do at home with 2 bricks (or similar) 2 bits of straight wood or metal about a meter long  and a tape measure........

 

however, I am still struggling with how to 4 wheel align (if anybody has a decent tutorial, I am unsure about centrelining accurately)

[Guest]

Thanks Darren & Clive.

 

I have accessed the thread you mentioned - very informative.

 

I agree with the 6J wheels being too big, so will sell those & opt for the 5.5 (unless you think 5J is even better ??) + keeping the same tyre spec.

 

With regard to the tracking, it will be useful to remain sitting in the car whilst it's being done - although I'm not suggesting I'm between 250 / 300kg !!

 

Thanks.

 

Richard.

[Pete Lewis]

I need to make some photos like on the old site

 

yes mmost small chassis need 150lbs on each seat to get the suspension in its 'Static ride height'

 

use two staright lenghts of wood or metal bar pushed against the tyre,

use clives brick or make short legs to hold the ''bar' to sit above the load bulge in the tyre

do this both sides, and run a decent tape measure under the car measure across the beams in front and behind the trye, it needs to be 0- 3mm narrower at the front than the back

same applies to rear wheels

 

to get a view of all 4 are square you can use a decent piece of 6ft long timber and position this against the rear tyre on clives brick and have the excess length run under the sill,

 

just sight the alignment to the car body/sill if the toe is equal the line of the timber will need look the same down both sides of the car, its easy to view this , as the longer the bar the greater the magnified effect

adjust tie rods to get them equally parallel.

 

 

if you get bunny hops on pot holes its sure the rear toe and rear axles are in need of adjustment

 

specialist in the high street will not have the details for static ride heights this applies to

most vehicles old classic or modern, it sets the suspn. In its average running ride deflection

heights at which the toe spec is designed to be applied

 

if your luckmsome manufactures give unladen specs which will have a built in allowance

Even some triumph spec state unladen or at kerb weight,

its called read the factory manuals to get right,

or you can wast a lot of £££s and still have poor handling and tyre scrub

 

dont have me trig books handy but 3mm@600tyre diameter toe in drags the tyre sideways

a few hundred metres every mile

Pete

[Guest]

Thanks Peter.

 

I do remember the old site and visited on a regular basis as a guest - be great to get on level terms again.

 

With regard to the above, is it worth taking the car to a tracking garage and having the tracking adjusted - it must help / improve what I have already ??

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

[Pete Lewis]

as said they wont have the  data   to get it right 

 

you dont need laser 4 wheel kit for these simple cars 

 

if thats the route you take and they dont load or pull the suspension down you cant apply the triumph specification

unless that spec  actually  is for Unladen or kerb wt 

 

they will just do it unladen and next year your tyres have scrubbed out and they will imply a load of cobblers about you hitting a kerb

 

by design suspensions are designed to to cope with day to day incidents one engineering std test was park hard against a kerb, apply full lock and drive of, without deforming anything

in an accident its more dramatic and yes stuff bends 

 

I just gave my optical gear to Kevin to play with,  old but workable, just takes ages to set up, I have a  TrackAce  with a  laser spot and single mirror which

is far too fidgety,  and always loosing the reflection ,and wont stay on the wheel one sneeze and its moved.

for one man operation a Gunsons  Trackrite side slip gauge works wonders  ( £40 amazon)  light and easy ,just run over and there's your slip showing  !!

 

in the end two planks a brick two rubber ducks and a cheap tape give you all you need apart from 

   nicking bags of coal or having rent a crowd round for tea to load the seats ...in all cases 

 

Pete

[Peaks]

As the toe in is to counter the wheels splaying when at speed (at least I believe that's the reason) does using stiffer suspension bushes require a change from the standard toe in settings? 

[Pete Lewis]

Toe was introduced to correct the squeegee effect crossply tyres have under the footprint

by design radials dont need toe in,

so on our cars toe is generally zero, as everthing has a tolerance 0 to 3mm is the norm to aviod goint toe out,

 

modern front wheel drive and anti dive suspensions may well require some toe out

 

the answer lies within the manufacturers specification

 

changing the bush or spring rates wont affect the basic spec

 

just views from my background

 

 

you need a chassis dynamometer to assess what happens under driving conditions

its not a guessing game,

 

pete

[Casper]

If you have the Courier CD then there is a very interesting series by Carl Heinlein in Courier 158 (Aug 1993), 159 (Sep 1993) and 160 (Oct 1992)

 

Worth a read.

 

C.