Looking for a spitfire

[poppyman]

Hi Chris, having been in the motor trade since i was 15....... The only advice i can give you, is dont jump in with both feet...... I know you are itching for a car, but bide your time and the right one will come along. I remember one of my customers doing the same thing and bought a lovely shiny really good looking mini. He brought to me for a service a few months later and when it was on the ramp we found it was three different cars bodged together..... The poor guy ended up with nothing as the welding was crap, it even had an mot!! Just be very carefull. At this time of year you might find a lot more coming on as the colder weather comes and people have had their summer fun.  I wish you well in your search. Keep on checking the usual sites daily.

Good luck, Tony.

[Clive]

Could be a fiver, could be 2K. Depends on how well the welding has been done (I bought a mk3 spit with new sills fitted. I pulled them off with my bare hands in ten minutes!) 

New paint and welding may mean a good car, but it all needs checking VERY carefully as you have absolutely no idea what is under there. Again my Toledo had tape and a skim of filler over structural areas, and had been "professionally" resprayed and bodywork attended to.

I know I am sounding all downbeat, but I would prefer to see an honest car with its flaws not hidden. They do turn up, but it does take time and a bit of effort. 

More importantly, have you got some insurance quotes? I get the feeling budget is important, so you need to know what that will cost you.

(I tend to use the term zombie for any car that is returning to the road after an extended lay-up and claiming MoT exemption rather than a real MoT. I think there are many such cars out there which may or may not be deathtraps)

Now, the red MK3 has a few issues. It is never going to be a really shiny car, but the MoT history suggests it is a "work in progress"  like they all used to be. I reckon it was bought, work carried out to get it roadworthy and then used. And yes, it will need money spending on it as time goes by, but will be a good one to look at. If it turns out to not be suitable, I reckon it will be a  good lesson in what to look for in others as I doubt things are hidden. I wonder if "combination" lights was a correction for halogen?

[Adrian]

I can’t really comment much one the excellent advice already given. I was in the same boat 4 years ago when I was looking for my gt6, new to triumph and if I’m honest car mechanics but exactly why I wanted one, to learn. Took months looking at what was on offer asking people in the know what they thought and finally paid for an inspection of one (think it was £75) by jigsaw. Turned out to be an honest good car but in need of some TLC and some major surgery to improve it which is exactly what I wanted. What have I learnt.......be very careful with a car that has been undersealed. It can cover up bodges, used as a filler or if old can seal in water behind it so rot out a panel. 

Pits all down to how hands on you want to be.

good luck

Adrian

[chris.eg]

3 hours ago, clive said:

More importantly, have you got some insurance quotes? I get the feeling budget is important, so you need to know what that will cost you.

I have got a quote for a mk4 (from a comparison site, strangely enough) from Lancaster for £390. I get the impression though that that would be somewhat reduced if I were a club member?

Really, I would rather spend money on a mk3 that was always going to be a bit scruffy than on a shiny mk4. I just think they look much nicer Seems that it would be difficult to find someone to look at it with though as I can't really see anyone up here wanting to head all the way to Devon for a bribe ? Unless this looks like a good option:

1 hour ago, Adrian said:

and finally paid for an inspection of one (think it was £75) by jigsaw

Quote selection

 

I would be very happy to get hands on with the car, but would need to be fairly sure there weren't any big expensive problems. My biggest problem with this I think is that I have absolutely no welding experience and that seems to be mostly what these cars need. I would actually like to learn to do some as one day I would like to be able to properly restore a spitfire/gt6/something else entirely, but at the moment I feel that may be jumping in at the deep end (possibly even with lead boots ? )

[dougbgt6]

Chris,

Devon TSSC are one of the most active areas, worth contacting the AO, someone may know the car or may even take a look at it for you. Once again the area directory for details.

Doug

[chris.eg]

Thanks for the idea Doug. I have just emailed their AO to see what they can come up with. So far everyone seems really helpful

[Clive]

We do our best!

And although it is tempting to rush into things (my first spitfire was a horror, best thing is it sort of got me and the missus together! That is the thing about these cars, they are more than just a car, they create life stories and adventures) it is worth being patient. Then once you have got one, stop looking as a load of better/cheaper ones usually appear. It could just be me....

[thescrapman]

To give you a clue about what these cars can hide, I paid £150 for a mk2 Spitfire that had cost the previous owner £5000 3 years earlier.

It was a temple to bodgery. Floor pans were made out of road signs cut to size and stuck down with silicon sealant.

Engine (Mk4) was utterly shagged, knocking noise would have been defeaning if it hadn't had a very noisy exhaust system. Pissed oil of every possible place.

You could hear the spokes in the Wire wheels "pinging" as you turned corners.

I managed to get an MOT on it and shortly after it ripped the rear trailing arms out of the box section. Very exciting handling but it got me home.

Did have a mint chassis under it mind, which is now under a Mk1 GT6.

Looked cracking in the photos she showed me from when they bought it.

[daverclasper]

As well as tyres, I think brake hydraulics (certainly the master cylinder) can be an accident waiting to happen if the cars been standing for a while. An MOT would not show this up necessarily, unless they went pop during the heavy pressure on the the system during the brake test.

Dave 

Edited October 28, 2018 by daverclasper

[Anglefire]

There is nothing special about the mot that can’t be checked by the owner. But you have to be honest. In fact given mot testers aren’t allowed to use things like bodgers to check for rust etc, you have an advantage in that you can. 

The biggest problem with doing it yourself is that you look at something and decide you will do it later if you do find an issue. 

[daverclasper]

What's a bodger please?.

Dave

[dougbgt6]

Did somebody call my name? 

db

[dougbgt6]

 I've had two things on the MOT that I didn't know about and didn't know how to check.

Excessive play in the trunnions, yiks! Immediate replacement. MOT man used a 6ft bar under the front suspension and raised and lowered while a second guy squatted down looking for play. Is a little play acceptable? I don't know, but certainly there's no other signs that there's a problem. 

Rear brakes imbalanced, those "auto self adjusters" not doing their job! No symptoms while driving/braking, only spotted on the rolling road. 

Doug

[poppyman]

1 hour ago, daverclasper said:

What's a bodger please?.

Dave

A bodger is a large spiked heavy bar...... That some testers use for poking holes in the chassis looking for rust when there isnt any   Also known as "cowboys" May also have been mechanic of the year at   "qwik s*it."

Tony.

[Anglefire]

33 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

 I've had two things on the MOT that I didn't know about and didn't know how to check.

Excessive play in the trunnions, yiks! Immediate replacement. MOT man used a 6ft bar under the front suspension and raised and lowered while a second guy squatted down looking for play. Is a little play acceptable? I don't know, but certainly there's no other signs that there's a problem. 

Rear brakes imbalanced, those "auto self adjusters" not doing their job! No symptoms while driving/braking, only spotted on the rolling road. 

Doug

Yes but nothing special in finding out the trunions. Just a case of knowing what you are looking for.  

Ok somethings aren’t easy to check granted, but there is nothing special about it. 

My local does a good cheap (£15) mot - and it’s cheap because they hope to get the work to fix anything they find - but I’ve never had a problem with a modern taking it away and doing it myself. But they did my spitfire last time and don’t know old cars. They wouldn’t know how to check a trunion I suspect. They certainly didn’t know how to set up carbs as they completely detuned mine trying to reduce the idle. As for emissions- don’t even go there. 

I would take it there for a brake test as that is not always simple to check - and I would happily pay £15 for that every year and Get a second pair of eyes on it generally- but an unsupervised Mot, no. 

[Paul H]

My local garage allows me to watch the MOT and invites me to inspect the underside - On one test he failed my Vitesse because the headlight beam was too high then we both adjusted a headlight each and then passed for MOT . I value a second opinion and wouldnt consider by passing the MOT test

Paul 

[Anglefire]

You are lucky Paul. 

[Dick Twitchen]

9 hours ago, daverclasper said:

What's a bodger please?.

A person who makes or repairs something badly or clumsily/Bodgers were highly skilled itinerant wood-turners, who worked in the beech woods of the Chiltern Hills. 

[Casper]

Quote

A person who makes or repairs something badly or clumsily/Bodgers were highly skilled itinerant wood-turners, who worked in the beech woods of the Chiltern Hills. 

The reason that the term is used for someone who does a bad job is that Bodgers never finished the job.  They didn't make the chairs, they just turned the legs and stretchers.

C.

[chris.eg]

Interesting to see everyone has differing opinions about MOTs... I get the impression that some people think I might disregard safety with this endeavour. Don't worry, I won't. At the very least I would get the car inspected annually at a garage to check brakes etc. Honestly, I would probably get it MOT'd. The only thing putting me off that would be the risk of being stuck at a garage with a "dangerous" fault.

4 minutes ago, Casper said:

Quote

A person who makes or repairs something badly or clumsily/Bodgers were highly skilled itinerant wood-turners, who worked in the beech woods of the Chiltern Hills. 

The reason that the term is used for someone who does a bad job is that Bodgers never finished the job.  They didn't make the chairs, they just turned the legs and stretchers.

I never knew this before

The cars I was originally looking at have since all sold, but Sue (Devon AO) just emailed me this which sounds interesting:

"He had a 1500 Spitfire of which he is only the second owner having bought it from a work colleague in 1982.  It has been a daily driver and has a current MOT.  It is I believe British Racing Green and has overdrive.  It is a 1976 car and the lady is looking for around £3250 for it. "

Trouble is, it's a little too expensive for me really ?

I have also heard of a white 1500 that will be listed on eBay that I'm keeping my eyes peeled for as it's a bit closer and probably within budget.

Perhaps I should save for a bit longer and hold out for something like the one Sue mentioned to come up again.

[Anglefire]

That does depend on its condition. If it is ready for the road with only cosmetic requirements you can do those at your leisure. You might have to stretch you budget or get a loan for the balance - but for a good one could be worth it. But make sure it really is good. 

[poppyman]

As above, just think of what you could spend on getting a pile of "poo" on the road. Check the mot history, it can give you a lot of info  

Tony.

[goldy]

Hi Chris

Hope to see you tomorrow night I'm sure we can help with some of your fears, no most don't come in their Triumphs at this time of year and the meetings are very informal.

I would consider looking at the car down in Devon if it is known by the club, as I said it can be worth spending a little more now than finding to have to spend much more than you estimated later. 

 

 

[chris.eg]

3 hours ago, goldy said:

Hope to see you tomorrow night I'm sure we can help with some of your fears, no most don't come in their Triumphs at this time of year and the meetings are very informal.

I will come along, as long as I've finished work in time (pretty variable hours). What normally happens at the meetings? Do you all eat at the pub?

That car in Devon does sound good to me, but at the moment it really is more than I can spend and I am very hesitant to take a loan to pay for anything, especially a car which could still need a fair bit more spending on it. The other problem I have, which may actually mean I have to abandon this idea for now is that I don't have a garage to keep a car in. I get the impression that these cars deteriorate pretty quickly outside, so perhaps this is something I need to come back to in different circumstances in a few years

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, chris.eg said:

The other problem I have, which may actually mean I have to abandon this idea for now is that I don't have a garage to keep a car in. I get the impression that these cars deteriorate pretty quickly outside, so perhaps this is something I need to come back to in different circumstances in a few years

People's experience varies on that. I've certainly had them suffer when really exposed to the elements but my Vitesse lived under a carport, exposed on three sides but not above, for quite a while and didn't seem to suffer at all. Even the GT6, parked outside when I had no garage, didn't really begin to rot badly until the winter it got driven up the M40 every day in all weathers. However, if it's going to live outside I wouldn't want to pay the premium for a shiny example that won't stay shiny for long.