iana Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 I want to change the brake fluid in the vitesse, I dont know whether its currently on DOT4, DOT5 or silicone. I know I need to replace all of the fluid but Im assuming that the various brake fluid options are all compatible, how do I clean the system to prevent contamination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 Dot 3 , 4 and 5.1 are all compatible amd made of a semi clear brown gold oily looking fluid Dot 5 is a silicon material its not mixable with the others and visually a bright dense colour If you have 3 ,4 or 5.1 then a flush through with new fluid is fine, use dot 4 is standard just pump till new clear appears in your carch bottle when bleeding have a long tube and have the catch bottle up higher than the wheels , this stops air running back in the nipple threads Theres some good clues on https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/brakes But i cant open it on my tablet thingy. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 What Pete said + Silicone is often coloured purple and doesn't need changing, that's one of the reasons for having it. Silicone and the others don't mix, in fact when you change to silicone you just pour it in and bled the brakes until the fluid comes out purple. Doug 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iana Posted March 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 Well the fluid isn't a purple colour, its a brownish colour, no idea how old it is so want to replace so I know. I'm going to trawl through the bills I was given to see if that clarifies what fluids are in the car. Is it worth a change to silicone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 If your fluid has gone brownish, this points to mineral brake fluid rather than silicone. Silicone brake fluid tends to hold its purple colour as it is not affected by moisture, whereas mineral is. Various classic car owners have different views and is certainly a topic that is debated on this Forum on a regular basis. I'm not going in to the pro's and cons of each OR what the best accepted method of conversion is if you do decide silicone. I've run classics on both and have not experienced any great degree of difference. The benefits of silicone is that it does not absorb moisture and certainly does not spoil paintwork if contact is made. Mineral should be changed every coupe of years whereas silicone has a far greater shelf life. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iana Posted March 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 Thanks, I think Ive made my mind up from a quick search, it wont be silicone as Im not intending to rebuild / replace the brake system components at this stage. I found an invoice thats 3 years old and its stated as 'Castrol' brake fluid - Im assuming that this is not a silicone based product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 One easy way of checking what type of fluid it is, just take some out and put it in water..... If it mix's it's not silicon Old brake fluid is good for cleaning oil stains on driveways as well, brush it on leave a few minutes, wash off with water. Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Castrol will be normal fluid so buy any branded Dot4 and pump it through till clean appears Take care some nipples do seize and rears can get snapped trying to slacken off .or been tightened by a gorilla Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Do NOT put mineral oil in the brake system. This will kill the seals very quickly. Dot 3, 4 & 5.1 is a polyethylene Glycol blend (Synthetic) Dot 5 is a silicone fluid. Dot 5 (Silicone) does not mix with water BUT water can still get into the system. It will/may settle in low sump areas and cause corrosion possibly. 2 or 3 year replacement is worth thinking about. Automec suggest that you can drain DOT 4 and replace with DOT 5 with no flushing - utter madness. DOT 5 does damage paint work - trying touch-up painting after contamination. There is no miracle fluid. Modern car manufacturers do not use DOT 5 because it does not work well with ABS systems. DOT 5 was created for long term preservation/storage so was mummification but we won;t go there. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 42 minutes ago, RogerH said: Do NOT put mineral oil in the brake system. This will kill the seals very quickly. Dot 3, 4 & 5.1 is a polyethylene Glycol blend (Synthetic) Dot 5 is a silicone fluid. Dot 5 (Silicone) does not mix with water BUT water can still get into the system. It will/may settle in low sump areas and cause corrosion possibly. 2 or 3 year replacement is worth thinking about. Automec suggest that you can drain DOT 4 and replace with DOT 5 with no flushing - utter madness. DOT 5 does damage paint work - trying touch-up painting after contamination. There is no miracle fluid. Modern car manufacturers do not use DOT 5 because it does not work well with ABS systems. DOT 5 was created for long term preservation/storage so was mummification but we won;t go there. Roger I have used silicone brake fluid for years without problems and would believe Auromec on the basis of liability. Silicone brake fluid does not affect paint, any oil, wax or silicone containing product will affect paint repairs if not properly cleaned, anti fisheye products are available. Once sprayed part of my car with silicone brake fluid, removed the air supply to a Gunson Eezebled, not noticing that the bottle had fallen over, cleaned up no damage. Our cars do not have ABS unless somebody has added it, never heard of it being done. Regards Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Paul, Yes, a lot of bad press nonsense written about silicone. Here is a balanced analysis from our old friends at Buckeye Triumphs. https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/brakes Click Selecting Brake Fluid Doug 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 hours ago, 68vitesse said: Our cars do not have ABS unless somebody has added it, never heard of it being done. Regards Paul Hi Paul, my comment about modern cars not using DOT 5 was because many people say if DOT5 is so good why do the moderns not have it. DOT 5 is no good with ABS. Nothing to do with aged cars. The battle goes on !!!!! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 back in the days of making trucks some military specs called for dot5 probably down to long storeage requirements the brake suppliers would not accept any warranty if found to have been 5'd , here s a chart of spec's http://www.dixcel.co.jp/en/subcontent/literature/literature02.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Hi Peter, silicone based fluid was developed for the US Army with the main role for long term storage. The idea was that after 10, 18 or more years they can be rolled out with no maintenance on the brakes. (shouldn't go rusty as there is no water in the system). At some stage it was tested and registered with a DOT number. Prior to this the brake system would be drained or inhibitor inserted. Before ABS the car manufacturers didn;t use DOT5 because of the cost. They don;t use it now as DOT 5 and ABS do not work together. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 Hi, " Silicon brake fluid readily traps air and is not to be used with ABS systems." From the internet. I do not know of any Triumphs with ABS. My Clutch runs DOT 5 with no problems. My brakes ran DOT 4 with no problems. They did run DOT 5 with no problems but Mr GT decided it was bad and changed it to DOT 4 while upgrading front callipers. Around 6 years ago. Now my rear slave has died. Age I believe. Not helped by Yorkshire Triumph adjusting the rear shoes so they generated an abundance of heat when I left their garage. Shhmoking! Once brakes are all sorted. DOT 5 is my choice. Cheers, Iain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 I thought your preference was "baby oil" Iain. Tony. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 Only if required to get the job done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 Have got to say, it was damn fine thinking though Iain Never in a million years would i have thought of that... Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Well its better than the other alternatives !!!!!!¿¿ pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 From my own experience of using silicon for over 25 years I haven't had any problems. As already said it is less aggressive than the mineral stuff and does not absorb moister. The latter being important if you lay your Triumph up over the winter months. e.g. cylinders seizing up. If you used the mineral stuff then change it every 2 or 3 years, but don't get any on the paintwork when you are doing it. The only ABS on my Triumphs is my foot! The mineral v silicon bounces around Triumph forums somewhat like grease or oil in trunnions. Just my thoughts. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Found this which I think is well explained: http://www.mossmotoring.com/conventional-vs-silicone-brake-fluid/ Or to paraphrase: Silicone works well for virtually all cars (excluding ABS and race cars) The system needs to be carefully flushed through to remove all traces of old fluids and contamination All brake/hydraulic seals should be replaced every few years (something few of us actually do) But I still think replacing all the seals if changing to silicone is a very wise thing to do, helps sort any potential issues out 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Hi Dave, Mineral oil brake fluid is very very bad news for our cars. The two main fluids are Silicone (DOT 5) and polyglycol-ether DOT3, 4, 5.1). As for things going round in circles add OverDrive/Gearbox oil to the equation SAE40 or EP90 !!!!!!!! Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, dave.vitesse said: The only ABS on my Triumphs is my foot! Dave A Big Shoe ? Edited March 22, 2019 by Chris A 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Yes Clive it makes it very clear. Agree with ChrisA ABS in my Vitesse size twelve walking boots. RogerH you could also add electric fan or standard and the B word, see other post. Wonder if they could make a silicone compatible ABS if they had to no more fluid changes every two years. Regards Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 If you need ABS in your Triumph just keep banging the brake pedal with those size 12 boots. Just on/off pressure with the boots. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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