Header Tank

[Darren Groves]

Has anyone ever fitted a header tank to a Herald? Why would you want to I hear you say....well I have always had to have my radiator lower than it should be otherwise the filler cap fouls the underside of the bonnet as the bonnet has to be very low at the front to line up with the doors etc. Filling the cooling system normally involves getting the front of the car very high so that the higher parts of the system do get filled.

 

I don't want to go down the route of trying to adjust the body to allow for the bonnet to be raised again, so thought about adding a header tank with pressurised cap to inbetween master cylinders & heater and having the radiator filler blanked off and a pipe inlet added. With the filler cap blanked off it would allow the radiator to be raised back to where it should be and the filler would then be as high as the heater which is the highest point.

 

Bad idea? If not any suggestions on the best way to do it?

[John Bonnett]

Not a Herald I know Darren but I have fitted a MK4 Astra header tank to my old GT6 and to the current one I'm building. I imagine the available space will be similar and that the Astra tank will fit nicely. In fact like it was meant to be. It is also available with a low level sensor which I have fitted.

[Darren Groves]

Hi John,

 

I did see your set-up and was wondering how you had plumbed it in. My thought with mine was just to have a tank as a remote (and higher) filler bottle, but as the header you have used has 3 connections I wasn't sure how that would be incorporated into the Herald circuit?

 

Keep up the good work on the GT4, I think we all look forward to your updates.

 

Thanks

Darren

[Clive]

Darren, if you want to add a header tank, I would be adding one which allows coolant to circulate through it which keeps removing air.

It nneds a 16mm takeoff in the bottom rad hose, and a small 6/8mm takeoff at the highest point, the thermostat housing.

 

And if doing that, just buy a vw polo rad  as it would be cheaper than getting yours changed (I paid £16 delivered, they cope with engines exceeding 150bhp) which should fit quite easily in a herald with a few bits of flat steel bar. Just a thought!

[John Bonnett]

Darren, if you want to add a header tank, I would be adding one which allows coolant to circulate through it which keeps removing air.

It nneds a 16mm takeoff in the bottom rad hose, and a small 6/8mm takeoff at the highest point, the thermostat housing.

 

And if doing that, just buy a vw polo rad  as it would be cheaper than getting yours changed (I paid £16 delivered, they cope with engines exceeding 150bhp) which should fit quite easily in a herald with a few bits of flat steel bar. Just a thought!

 

 

Incredible value and efficient too. My Golf GTI radiator was £26 delivered.

 

Darren you are local to me and very welcome to pop over any time.

 

John

[Darren Groves]

Clive - thanks, I like the idea of the VW rad and plumbing in correctly, rather than modify existing. At those prices it's silly not to.

 

John - would love to come down and look at the set up you have, I'll PM you and we'll work something out.

[Clive]

A very good idea to have a look at Johns. 

If you want a smaller, narrow tank I use Corsa ones, but have to block a small outlet off. Only about 100mm wide.

 

Back to the herald rad, the spit uses a u frame, wheras the herald uses the valances. You may need to run a couple of struts across the valances to make them rigid? fixings to the vw rads use a 6mm bolt (needs to be short or you will punch into the rad, that would be bad)

Ebay is very handy when it comes to looking for rads, most seem to publish teh sizes of the core. However, watch out for the pipe sizes. the polo/gold versions use 32mm so are the same as the triumph size.

[John Bonnett]

Clive - thanks, I like the idea of the VW rad and plumbing in correctly, rather than modify existing. At those prices it's silly not to.

 

John - would love to come down and look at the set up you have, I'll PM you and we'll work something out.

 

 

Darren I would be delighted to see you and look forward to your PM.

[Darren Groves]

I'm looking forward to visiting John in a couple of weeks time.

 

I've been looking at radiators, obviously the main hoses will need to be modified to fit and have seen how John has done his. The VW rads seem to have both pipe outlets on the nearside (http://r.ebay.com/vQ1OMY), but I'm guess that it's going to be easier if they were on the offside. Can the rads just be flipped over to suit or am I looking for one from a specific model? 

 

There isn't too much space between the heater and master cylinder on a Herald, so will probably need to find a fairly compact expansion tank, will checkout the Corsa ones. Once my car is back together I'll start measuring.

[Clive]

Are you planning on using the fan switch in the vw rad? if so position matters as it will be in the wrong half of the rad (they are split top and bottom) There are some VW rads with the outlets on the other side, golf etc with a 1600+ engine eg  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-CADDY-GOLF-JETTA-PASSAT-SCIROCCO-SEAT-TOLEDO-RADIATOR-NEW-2-YEAR-WARRANTY-/291021714021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&fits=Model%3AGolf%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+II&hash=item43c23ef265 

[John Bonnett]

Both hose ports are on the right hand side  on the MK2 Golf GTI radiator. Be careful when you buy to ensure that the radiator accepts 32mm i/d hose. I've used Adrad and found them to be excellent. Apart from the right angle bend on the header tank outlet all the hoses are Triumph on my installation.

[Darren Groves]

Are you planning on using the fan switch in the vw rad? if so position matters as it will be in the wrong half of the rad (they are split top and bottom) There are some VW rads with the outlets on the other side, golf etc with a 1600+ engine eg  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-CADDY-GOLF-JETTA-PASSAT-SCIROCCO-SEAT-TOLEDO-RADIATOR-NEW-2-YEAR-WARRANTY-/291021714021?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&fits=Model%3AGolf%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+II&hash=item43c23ef265 

 

Have ordered one of these, many thanks.

[John Bonnett]

That looks very much like the one I'm using Darren and by turning the thermostat cover through 180 degrees, a standard GT6 bottom hose will go straight on. The bottom hose on my installation also uses a GT6 bottom hose but with a take-off for the header tank.

[Darren Groves]

Thanks John. Out of interest where did you get the bottom hose take off and other plumbing bits?

[John Bonnett]

Thanks John. Out of interest where did you get the bottom hose take off and other plumbing bits?

 

 

I made them Darren and when you are over I'm sure I could find enough material to make a take-off for you if it would help. I have a note of where I sourced everything and I can let you have all the details then.

[Darren Groves]

I made them Darren and when you are over I'm sure I could find enough material to make a take-off for you if it would help. I have a note of where I sourced everything and I can let you have all the details then.

 

That's a very kind offer John, which I will take you up on if that's OK.

 

 

If you want a smaller, narrow tank I use Corsa ones, but have to block a small outlet off. Only about 100mm wide.

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion Clive, have just bought one from eBay for £2.00, can't go wrong for that price....

[Darren Groves]

The radiator arrived today, looks ideal, but has thrown up a couple of questions.

 

fixings to the vw rads use a 6mm bolt (needs to be short or you will punch into the rad, that would be bad)

Clive - the fixings you mention that take the 6mm bolts, are these the 4 holes on each side of the rad, might seem a daft question but they don't appear to be threaded, or does the bolt cut the thread on first use? They are also pegs on the bottom which could be used also I guess.

 

John - It appears from your photos you have used these mounting holes. I guess a visit to you would answer this question but time is against me at the moment to get the car ready for the 26th, so can't get over.

 

The radiator also has a vent hole on the top, presumably as return back to the header tank, as the Corsa header tank has 2 small outlets would it be preferable to run back to that or blank off?

[Clive]

Yep, those 4 holes. Originally they use a large self-tapper with the end cut off type of fixing. May be available from VW? but short 6mm screws cut their own thread happily. Do measure depth with care though! (and allow for the bracketry/washers etc, you want enough bite)

I did use some large self-tappers and cut the ends off on one setup, copying the original VW ones. But it was a faff. Think No14 acme screw, self tapper with hex head and fitted washer. That No14 is from memory though!

 

If it has an extra take off, use it if simple to do. I didn't realise that one did, mine hasn't and I would have liked one. Seems there are a few variations on the design. Extra bleeds can do no harm. However, as out cars have a much simpler system, I wouldn't worry about blocking it off either. (I use a self tapper with a little sealant)

 

I was licky with my bottom take-off. It appears forklift trucks often have an plastic take off, just a bit of 32mm tube with a 16mm (5/8) takeoff. And my good friend Pete happens to be a forklift engineer. Not seen them on the bay though..... Don't be afraid to use silicone hoses, lots of preformed shapes, though can get costly. I use a few mitsubushi and nissen ones. Genuine ones, as used on forklifts.....

[John Bonnett]

The radiator arrived today, looks ideal, but has thrown up a couple of questions.

 

 

Clive - the fixings you mention that take the 6mm bolts, are these the 4 holes on each side of the rad, might seem a daft question but they don't appear to be threaded, or does the bolt cut the thread on first use? They are also pegs on the bottom which could be used also I guess.

 

John - It appears from your photos you have used these mounting holes. I guess a visit to you would answer this question but time is against me at the moment to get the car ready for the 26th, so can't get over.

 

The radiator also has a vent hole on the top, presumably as return back to the header tank, as the Corsa header tank has 2 small outlets would it be preferable to run back to that or blank off?

 

 

I did actually tap M6 threads in the plastic bosses Darren and then fitted short lengths of M6 stainless studding. I prefer this to screws because the studding can be Loctited in and there is less chance that the plastic threads will wear away which might be the case with screws when they are taken in and out..

 

My radiator also has the bleed port on the top right hand side. I fill the system with it open and as soon as the coolant appears pop a blank on. The Astra tank does have a take-off that could be connected but I didn't do it on the GT6 and haven't on this one either.

[Darren Groves]

Clive & John - Thanks for the replies.