mark powell Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 11 hours ago, Peter Truman said: The small chassis cars have a similar bracket I found one a spare Spitfire front suspension set up I have the chassis brackets where the welded/stamped in bolt/stud was severely corroded, ie wasted so had to replace the whole bracket, on these cars they are also only a one bolt mounting! Got the T shirt... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 That goes in the HORROR’s cabinet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 5 hours ago, mark powell said: Got the T shirt... I have always warned about this aged rusty waisting we had a similar on the 64 Vit6 a worrying bit you cant see and its so easy to do a check when you know about it and can be as worrying than uprights shearing any more Tee shirts out there ????? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark powell Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 Oh, and don't forget to check where the front turrets mount to the chassis... Chassis went for scrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 On 26/12/2022 at 17:52, Bfg said: I coated them in liquid electrical tape. Hi. What is that stuff please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, daverclasper said: Hi. What is that stuff please? "Liquid Electrical Tape" is a kind of plasticised paint. You brush it on thick and let it dry, and it remains flexible and waterproof, rather like the insulation on the wires. If the join you're sealing is clean then it can work quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, NonMember said: "Liquid Electrical Tape" is a kind of plasticised paint. You brush it on thick and let it dry, and it remains flexible and waterproof, rather like the insulation on the wires. If the join you're sealing is clean then it can work quite well. Thanks. I haven't investigated price, though has it an unopened/shorter opened, shelf life, do you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 It definitely has a shelf life but it may not be too short (it's probably longer than the packaging says, like most things) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 I've used it worked well but found the left over in container even sealed goes off in time approx say a year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, daverclasper said: Thanks. I haven't investigated price, though has it an unopened/shorter opened, shelf life, do you know It does have a shelf life, and is solvent based which evaporates whenever the lid is left open. After wasting more than I use, I'm now very particular about refitting the lid as soon as I've applied the substance. I also store the pot upside down in the bottom of my electrical tool box. Working in this way the pot I presently have-on-the-go has lasted two-plus years and is now going a bit bogey. I used to like it in black but now I prefer the clear solution, as of course it then shows the wire's colours. It is particularly useful where a number of wires cannot be easily wound / insulated by wrapping ..such as the wires hard-wired into the back of the indicator switch. I have also used it under heat shrink, particularly in places which are exposed to the elements - like on my motorcycles. I always solder wires together and the connections on their ends, and so I might apply liquid-electrical-tape on the connection and then heat shrink over it to give a watertight and well supported join. I guess that is the electrical equivalent of belt and braces. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 Good Evening, Not so nice weather today and my energy levels seem to be a little depleted. Thursday is also cleaning day in the apartment - miserable task and time consuming when you're an untidy person Nevertheless (just a little) more done . . . ^ Upper fulcrums dismantled for the polybushes and pins to be thoroughly cleaned ..and also the end faces of the casting which the polybushes are tightened against, before being reassembled with turbo gel and the nuts refitted. I torqued these to 20 ft.lb. and then tightened just a bit more to get the pins in. ^^ After a bit of tarting up of the disc's shield (scraping off the loose paint and a quick coat of paint) and also pumping fresh grease into the outer ball joint.. the upper wishbone were reassembled onto the upright. I'll schedule to replace that top ball joint soon, as it is not as smooth turning as it might be. I did have a go at undoing the steering arm lever, but one of the nuts was seized on and I really didn't want to shear off the stud. It did unwind a thread or two as the stud pulled out, but I thought better of pushing my luck. It re-tightened fine. I replaced the nut on the other end of the lever arm as its nyloc was barely gripping. I used medium strength Loctite on the thread ..just for reassurance. Moving on . . . ^ As Blue Peter used to say here are some we prepared earlier.. Bottom wishbone brackets each with two studs. I bought them second hand and cleaned them up months ago. ^ this is the RHS front chassis mount onto which the bottom wishbone bracket fitted. I don't know what the hole on the right is for, but the top left hole is where the single stud bracket fits, and the hole below that has been drilled to take the later double-stud bracket ..except the holes are not in line, nor are the hole centres (distance apart) correct. In short ; the bracket didn't fit without my first having filed the bottom hole slightly oval . This sides rear bracket / mount's holes were similarly inaccurate, by about a millimeter.. so more filing. This might account for why M&T's mechanic, I think underhandedly didn't fit double-stud brackets as expected ..filing steel is too much like physical work and it's time consuming. ^^ The grease is a giveaway as to how flat the wishbone bracket fitted against this mounting. The second photo above shows just a little clearer that the suspension forces was pulling the single stud outwards and had dished the metal. Gauged against a straight edge - the hole had pulled out by about a millimeter. The way-too-small & skinny washer fitted behind it was likewise dished. I fear an unfortunate kerbing would probably have torn the nut, with washer, through the plate. And if you doubt that this could happen . . . ^ this is the back face of the rear, LHS bottom chassis mount (photo laying on its RH side) where the original single-stud of the wishbone bracket had previously pulled through. The chassis has been repaired by welding a plate over the hole, leaving no room for camber adjustment spacers. Again a small skinny washer was under this bracket's single nut. It was an old nyloc that I feel ought to have been replaced. It's hidden under the paint but I hope that this repair plate was welded all the way around. I see no evidence of cracked paint and so I feel it must have been. If that is so - then this repair is strong enough for the job ..but it's lazy workmanship and poor engineering practice. In my opinion the torn out plate should have been neatly cut out and new plate inserted flush with the original plane, and of course that should also have been welded continuously, all the way around. As it is I'm not happy with having the second stud coming through to a stepped surface, where the second stud's nut, and its washer really ought to sit flat to the surface. . . ^ a crude solution, in lieu of doing it right at a later date, and very many times stronger than how is was. Two thick spacer washers 1-1/4" (32mm) in diameter fill in the step level. Even these would have been better than the 1mm thk x 22mm diameter mild steel washer that was used.. but then I'm also adding a well-fitting plate behind those ..to distribute the stud (lower wishbone) loads not only through the repair plate, but also all around the perimeter of the original structure. The photos show the 'dry run' ..where I'm checking that the studs are long enough for nyloc nuts. ^ what was -v- what I'm now fitting. The 5/32" (4mm) thick square backing plate is recycled from my boat (hence a couple of surplus holes). In that former life ( ..if a steel plate can be said to have a life ? ) it was fitted under the deck to take the loads of the mast's rigging. And that's about all I got to do today... Pathetic effort Pete - must try harder 2/10 Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Having yesterday made the first backing plate, for behind the lower wishbone's chassis mount, today I made the other for this side. . . ^ the wishbones are reversed in this photo, ie the front one is to the left and the rear on the right. The 2nd backing plate I made (again from recycled steel) is much the same for either, and both are 4mm thick ..to replace the skimpy washer(s). The front-bottom wishbone bush has been dismantled, cleaned out, lubricated and reassembled onto the replacement double-stud bracket. These bushes have a spacer tube inside them and so I've torqued the nut to 30 ft.lb. The joint now pivots freely and smoothly but it is not slack. The rear (black) single stud bracket is bent and twisted ..just because it can be I guess. , and it's very tight to move. I pulled that apart and its poly bush is excessively worn, both the spacer tube is a loose fit on the through-bolt, and the polybush is a loose fit on the spacer. . . ^ I've decided to bodge it (..until I get replacement polybush) and have used a wrap of coke tin around the through bolt and a double wrap of coke tin around the spacer tub. Suitably lubricated and reassembled onto the double-stud bracket, the slack is gone. But it's another re-do-it task on my perpetual job list. Moving on, encouraged by the postman delivering the replacement bottom fulcrum pin & bush kits . . . ^ TR-GB part number SS7 for the TR4a-6. I was pleasantly surprised to see the weather caps with o-rings included ..which weren't in the photograph on their website ..and which I forgot to order. So for under £42 (for both sides) including delivery it seems good value. As other companies are charging double this figure I guess theirs are stainless steel &/or a brand-name polybushes. These metal bits, including the spacer tubes are bright-nickle-plated, but with Copaslip on the through bolt, lubricant on the bushes, and waterproof grease smeared over their outsides - they ought to last the week out ..after all it is Friday today. Reassembly time . . . ^ I lubricated the inside of the weather cap and fitted the o-ring is fitted into it, and then the polybush goes through it as illustrated. The polybush, with captive weather-cap is then an interference push fit into the end of the wishbone arm. It goes in but needs a bit of pushing. I did this by placing one of the large plain washers, supplied in the kit, on the edge of the work bench with the bush face-up on that (so as not to buckle the flange of the cap) and then pushed the arm down onto it. ^ repeat with weather cap, o-ring and polybush on the other side of the arm, and then insert the through-bolt with spacer tub and end washer. You may note that the spacer tub is not all bright and shiny and new. That's because the new one didn't fit on the bolt, so I'm re-using the old ones. The new through-bolt is a tad larger in diameter than the old one ..which might be attributed to its nickle plating ? However, the new bolt is tight fit into the bottom trunnion, whereas the old bolt (with no plating) was a little loose. Thankfully the old bottom fulcrum pin came apart with its spacers undamaged. ^ ensuring I got the arms the right way around, and the right way up.. I assembled them onto the upright's bottom trunnion. Note ; the large plain washers (supplied) are in each weather-shield cap. These I lubricated with turbo-gel against the polybush and with waterproof grease on their outside faces. The through bolt, and the inside of each spacer tube is of course liberally coated with Copaslip. ^ I tightened the nut until the arms were able to pivot on their bushes freely and smoothly, but neither too slack nor too tight. There is no slop in this assembly nor any binding. Turning the through-bolt, so the flat of its head was flat to the disk, did adjusted things so I adjusted things several times over until I was happy with the tension. I also fitted an extra washer under the nut ..to get the split pin through the castellation, without compromising that tension. The split pin was too long so I cut it to size before locking everything up - Job Done. ^ before refitting the front suspension assembly - I wanted to clean the threads of those top fulcrum bolt holes. The suspension in the meantime was playing dead on the workmate To be honest, by this time I had had enough. It was quarter past three and on this dull day - getting dark already. After a week of it ..on just one side of the car - I'm tired of being filthy dirty, slimy with grease, crawling under the car, laying down on cold paving slabs, and in general doing (..or part doing) a whole list of jobs that I feel ought to have been right on a car that came back from a professional chassis swap. Gripe over - I'm just a little too tired for this sh.... One last effort . . . ^ a task that I'm sure would be easier with two persons ..preferably anyone but me ! Literally kicking the trolley-jack to maneuver the suspension into place, I first loosely fitted one of the top fulcrum bolts. At this conjuncture the bottom wishbone is just hanging down. Dropping the track rod end back into place helped as an arm to lever the hub around, to swing and shove the bottom wishbone brackets into the chassis mounts. ^ with a huff and a puff - progress ..the bottom wishbone brackets sitting flat against their chassis mounts. OK.. that'll do for tonight. These brackets are now double-stud type, with sensible (..IMO ) backing plates and new nyloc nuts. And the bottom outer fulcrum is no longer seized. The suspension now swings up n' down easily and silently. I wonder if, without all those joint being seized or overly tight, I'll now need new dampers ? Bidding you a good evening, and a great weekend. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 Pete when you get Katie finished we can all raise a glass to a monumental effort to drive the smile hoping the To Do list is reducing , not growing Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase1969 Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 Superb work Pete, I need to go through my TR4A before the Spring. One of the best cars I have, awesome daily driver when the weather is acceptable here in South Wales 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just to fill in the gaps.. here's a copy of responses, advice, and further activity via the TR Register forum . . . On 1/14/2023 at 11:43 AM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Were there any markings on the head of the trunion bolt? Looks like the specialists are back selling a B&Q commercial bolt rather than HT bolts for this application. (Race to the bottom on pricing, just like the MG world). The kit part number on the bag is a vague reference to the old Quinten Hazel kit number (QSK200S) The thread of the bolt is too long to my mind and should be phosphate coated not bright zinc finish. No doubt the kit supplier copied another kit, which was a copy of another etc. and the first a copy of the original Triumph items, done to reduce price. Type in 139835, bolt part number, and you will find the drawing I did in 1989 of this bolt to get it made correctly for Cox & Buckles. As far as I am aware there is only one company in UK that still make this item in the small volumes the classic car world demand. PS Pete, turn the front steering to full lock and check the additional thread of the trunion bolt, sticking out the nut, does not scrape your disc. PPS Stroke the metal thrust washers with a file, I think they should be hardened. Thank You Peter, The bolt head markings (three radial lines) are for grade-5 UNF 3F. I don't know what the 3F signifies but is perhaps the manufacturer ? ^ The UNF reference to the thread is obvious, and grade-5 signifies a lower grade of Medium Carbon steel - quenched and tempered ..which I understand to mean surface hardening. Medium carbon steel would be appropriate for suspension parts, which should not be so hard as to be brittle, although perhaps grade-8 might be marginally better. As the bolt fits into a brass trunnion, then I cannot see it makes much difference either way. A half inch diameter grade-5 bolt isn't going to shear off any time before the whole of the front of the car is buckled under ! I must confess to not being familiar with the three radial lines not being aligned to the points on the head, but this chart shows them. Conversely the bolts might be chinese copies made by people who don't recognised their significance. I definitely agree with what you say about the threaded length of the supplied bolts... ^ this, having structural components mated onto a thread rather than plain shank, is really poor engineering practice. Those threads will cut into the inside of the spacer tubes &/or flatten off. The thread's reduce diameter means that there is already a bit of slop in tightness of that connection .. and with wear - there will soon be very much more. And that looseness will result in uneven loading / twist on the upright post - which will soon wear its hole on one side. The previously fitted through-bolt had just 4mm more plain shank length and so was also unsuitable. I will go to Suffolk Fasteners to see if they have a couple of longer grade-8 bolts (with longer plain shanks) which I can cut (the thread off) to length and drill for the split pin. Again it's on my PJ list (..perpetual job list). The washers I agree could be better / harder to lessen denting and wear from the very ends of the spacer tubes (see photo below) and perhaps also resist dishing. I suspected that this would only be an issue after a considerable number of miles (..that is if they hadn't already rusted away in the meantime !) - but reading Marco's post and seeing his photo teaches me otherwise. Marco's photo of a cracked and broken up washer is of course more likely with hardened (too brittle) steel rather than that of a more ductile specification ..so we need to find the middle ground. ^ Katie's rubber steering-lock buffer (red arrow) has perished and is cracked ..so that again is on my PJ list, and I've noted a score on the back face of the disc where the nut head (second photo) has worn into it. I've heeded Stuart's warning that both the bolt and castellated nut head need to be flat to the disk. Thank you again Stuart. Below, Marco's advice about the length of the nylon / polybushes bushes versus the spacer tubes - is also very correct . . . On 1/14/2023 at 4:50 PM, Z320 said: ... Locked tight the assembly is a solid metal unit and the POM bushes (this is mostly not Nylon), pressed tight in the wishbones, slide on the steel distancers. For this a high demand for the correct dimensions is needed! The distancers have to be about 1/10 mm longer than the POM bushes pressed in the wishbones, the dust washers below the flanges. The way you see it on the photo the distancer have to move tight in the POM bushes. Ciao, Marco ^ " about 1/10 mm" or 0.004" is enough free length so the polybush is able to freely pivot / turn around the spacer tube, which itself should be locked tight to the trunnion-upright by the through bolt. If the spacer-tubes are too short (..or the polybushes too long) &/or if the washers are too soft a metal and are dented in (as in my photo above) - then the ends of the polybush are squeezed tight and it is locked ..so cannot rotate with the wishbone. The wishbone then rotates on the outside of the polybush and premature wear will occur, particularly in their thrust faces. End result ; a tight joint to start with and then sloppy. I thank you Marco for this advice I will correct mine when I change the through bolt. Clearly this is one of those jobs that looks pretty straight forward - but in which there are quite a few pitfalls for the unwary, the too tired, &/or for those working by torchlight in the cold. Thank you Again Peter, Stuart, and Marco for sharing your invaluable insight and experience. I am slow but i am learning. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 and again . . . On 1/14/2023 at 1:42 PM, stuart said: FWIW you can still buy a complete inner lower wishbone mounting box and they are a lot easier to fit than p**s about repairing one that has been pulled through. Also have you get the extra re-enforcing plates added to the side of the boxes Pete a la TR5/6? Stuart. Thanks Stuart, From the parts catalogue I was aware of the new / replacement body mounts available. These having four holes so they can be used on either the left or right hand side of the chassis ..with double stud lower wishbone brackets. And my good friend Rich C-R answered my query as to what the spare hole was for in Katie's body mounts - likewise ; it was from the original brackets not being handed, but of course they were only for the single stud wishbone brackets. ^ yes indeed, Katie's replacement chassis does have "the extra re-enforcing plates added to the side of the chassis mount boxes, a la TR5/6" .. although the one side appears to be a home-made plate rather than the pressed-steel stiffening web. Of course.. if the plonker had welded them on the other way around, ie with the low cut web away from the suspension tower - then I'd have been able to get the poly-bush's through-bolt out ! I fear Darwin's theories about the evolution of this species must have hit a concrete block in this post-industrial-revolution-era. - - - On 1/15/2023 at 8:01 PM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Pete. The lock stock is a steel item held to the trunion with an hex head screw. Pt no 156111. https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/stop-steering-lock-156111.html I think I read that someone had produced this as an eccentric stop, like the sidescreen cars had. The sidescreen car one is not tall enough for an IRS car so cannot be used as a direct fitment without the addition of a spacer. Are you sure Triumph didn't fit a bit of perished rubber hose - like the one on Katie ? . . . ^ As it was too small to be of use, ie to make contact with the stop (before the disc hit) - it has lasted very well. - - - On 1/14/2023 at 4:50 PM, Z320 said: The distancers have to be about 1/10 mm longer than the POM bushes pressed in the wishbones, the dust washers below the flanges. The way you see it on the photo the distancer have to move tight in the POM bushes. If the bushes are shorter than the POM bushes there are 3 possibilities: 1st: the new bushes are too short, this was the case with my repair set, also my distancers have been to small and felt straight through the bushes, all unbelievable rubbish and in the bin 2nd: the new POM bushes do not have the correct dimensions 3rd: one more restorer overdid it with paint or even @&€!!@ powder on the wishbones! For my taste, if have to do the hole thing again you could use much less grease. Ciao, Marco Thanks again Marco, With Katie ; 1. both the old and the new distancer / spacer tubes, on which the POM bush should rotate, were / are too short. And without those tube's length being greater / the tube projecting, even just a small amount, the POM bush gets clamped tight. I have pulled mine apart again (on the LHS) and reassembled it without the dust / weather caps. I did dismantle / reassemble and try it with just the end-most dust caps in place, but still the tubes were too short and the fulcrum locked tight ..so now it has no dust caps. Waterproof grease will have to do the job of keeping the moisture & dust out, but with the thrust washers, tolerances suitably snug, and things bolted up tight - even water under pressure would not easily find its way in. I tightened the through-bolt to 50 ft.lb. (which then backed it off, just a few degrees, to fit the split-pin) and can detect no play at all, but the fulcrum now pivots smoothly. I did go shopping for longer 9/16" UNF bolts, which I could cut to length and fit - so the bush didn't sit on the bolt's thread, but my local stockist didn't have any. I'll have to order a pair and I'll swap them out sometime ..preferably when it's not freezing outside. Cheers to all, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wimpus Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 Nice work. Front suspension rebuild i've been asked to do on a TR4. Now i'm busy of the rear suspension on a TR5 PI. I see you mentioning Colin Wake, know him to. Been to his house several years ago on a UK trip with Fox, met him in september at the finish of the 10 Countries Run in the Netherlands. He's a very nice guy 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 On 14/01/2023 at 10:10, Pete Lewis said: hoping the To Do list is reducing , not growing Pete Thanks Pete, but I feel the to-do list is still longer than I dare sit down and think about, ...and it is now supplemented with an appendix ; the ' That'll do for now, but I really ought to revisit this again' list. Not a whole lot of anything new to report on today, other than it's pretty cool to be lazing around on paving slabs. Still if I'd like to enjoy the car in the springtime and summer then this work is best done 'out of season'. Looking on the bright side (literally) - the clear polythene poly-tunnel is good for natural light during the day . . . ^ With the chassis brackets and wishbone fulcrums sorted, save for wanting to find another through-bolt for the bottom trunnion - with a longer length of plain-shank which the bush can sit on - it was past due my putting things back together. The brake caliper was refitted this morning, as was the track rod end. While the weather was still warm - I'd stripped the crusty paint off the top face of the spring pan and repainted it, so that was nicely cured and ready with the (original) lower-rated road springs to refit. . . ^ removing the support from the trolley jack, the wishbones swing all the way down ..so the all-thread / compressor only had to wind the spring up by 3". When the spring-pan was close to the bottom wishbone, I lifted the hub up and inserted a 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" block of wood between the upper wishbone and the suspension tower - so the pan's studs were at a better angle for fitting the pan onto, and so I could get the nut onto the inside studs. With the pan located I wound the compressor up just enough to get the pan's nuts and their washers onto the wishbones through bolts ..and then pulled the pan into place with the six of those. Next up was to remove the spring compressor and to refit the damper in its place. Looking at the bottom brackets of the damper I noted things looked a bit odd - so I undid the through bolt to see what was what . . . ^ The through-bolt is the wrong size. A 3/8" diameter bolt had been fitted where the holes in the brackets and the spacer tube through the damper's bottom bush are sized for a 7/16" diameter bolt. I didn't have one, so again it's something to be shopped for and redone. This was probably the source of one of the more obscure clonks. Hey ho, I still can't get it all back together again today.. Moving on . . . ^ I still have the left-hand-side front-suspension to do. same ol' thing again. . . ^ damper, road-spring and caliper off, inner wishbone chassis brackets undone, and an hour-long skirmish to get the track rod end to push out ..which again had me cussing the previous mechanic. Funny thing.. another five and a half hours crawling around under the car in close to zero temperatures wasn't part of the envisaged living-the-dream. I'm out tomorrow, so I can look forward to another weekend under the car. oh joy of joys.. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 Friday morning I managed to do a couple of hours work before quickly showering and changing to go out to lunch. So the RHS front suspension was then on the bench, for me to battle with its lower-outer fulcrum / trunnion pin. . . ^ As on the LHS of the car - on the RHS, the rear wishbone arm became looser after the spring pan was removed, and then together with its POM bushes it came off easily enough. Its spacer tube was left still seized onto the through bolt and it took a fair bit of persuasion ..and damage to the through-bolt and its nut - but the assembly succumbed to the bigger hammer and finally freed off. ^ The through bolt was also seized in the upright and again the trunnion's spacer tube for the forward arm of the wishbone remains seized onto the bolt. Thankfully again 'gentle persuasion' won over the need to be cut off. I also managed to clean up the flaky paint and surface corrosion on this side's spring pan, and to quickly slap on a protective coat of POR. - - - Today, temperatures outside reached a balmy 3-degress celsius here in Ipswich - but bright with sunshine, it was a tad warmer within Katie's poly-tunnel. Taking advantage of that, the objective was simply to do a bit of cleaning / and tarting up. . . ^ the single stud lower-inner fulcrum brackets were removed, and then it was just a matter of cleaning up and repainting the arms. Because Katie is intended as a driver rather than show car, after a good power-wire-brushing and degreasing - I simply used an aerosol primer and aerosol black paint for these. I hope not to be looking at them very often anyway.! The polybushes appear to be seviceable. The upper-inner fulcrum I both cleaned up and reassembled with fresh lubricant. Beforehand the wishbones were turning on the polybushes, and now the polybushes are turning on the fulcrum pin. ^ And finally for today a quick coat of black paint, over the silver coloured POR I'd used on the spring pan. Paint runs and drips were a free option ..so I had them ! The tarting-up paintwork I've done was more to get rid of the flaky paint that hold moisture. I spray it all over with wax after assembly back on the car. As soon as the sun went behind the oak tree and apartment building - the temperature in the polytunnel took a sharp dive, so I call it a day. I bid you a pleasant and good evening, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase1969 Posted January 25, 2023 Report Share Posted January 25, 2023 Looks fantastic, huge amount of work going into this. I need to look at my suspension on my 4A, luckily the PO was fanatical about all of the mechanical bits and used the car as it was intended which meant the bodywork was not touched for 35 years. Love the patina but I do need to make a start to ensure she is on the road for another 50+ years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 Monday it was -1 degrees at 10am so I waited until the temperatures warmed to zero. No sunshine to warm the polytunnel but cutting and drilling steel was OK. . . ^ again the hole for the 2nd stud of the RHS lower fulcrum / chassis brackets were incorrectly drilled, and so the bottom hole of each had to be made oval to get the studded bracket to fit. Seen above is the rear lower wishbone chassis bracket. As illustrated by the shim (used to adjust the wheel's camber) the wishbone's bracket couldn't / didn't fit straight because an inside corner weld, for the additional stiffening plate, was blobbed on the surface rather than nicely concave. ^^ Copaslip grease seen in the second photo illustrates the twisted angle that the single-stud bracket had been fitted. This angle of twist would likewise be in the polybush, whose pivot axis was out of line with the forward of these wishbone bushes. ^ I've relieved that weld a bit, but I didn't want to cut it all away, Instead I've cut a notch into one of the camber-adjustment shims and also rounded its bottom corner to clear the weld. The shim now sits straight and flat to the surface, which in turn will mean that the wishbone's bracket and polybush will also sit in axial plane. ^ I've also made a pair of thick backing plates for behind the chassis brackets. They're of up-cycled steel, so a few extra holes ..but still very much better than the thin small washers that were fitted. OK coffee break over, time for a little more work. The temperature out there is now 4 degrees warmer, and that seems to be good for most of the week. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 Wednesday ; I'm pleased to report that Katie's suspension, on both sides, is now reassembled and she is now back to having four footprints (tyres) on the ground. I'm not finished yet but the outstanding jobs necessitate me getting new parts ..and in the meantime I can see if what I've done actually makes any noticeable difference. I lowered the car off the stands just before 5pm and it's rush hour traffic, raining and dark ..so a road test will have to wait. Just one other point, I think worth adding to my reports on the task to date ..in the hope that others can avoid the same mistake. It is again with regard to the bottom outer-fulcrum (on a TR4a or later car) and the fit of the POM bushes and their spacer tubes into the wishbones. I got it wrong on this side (perhaps because the bolt and the spacer tubes were rusted in) and so had to take it apart again . . . ^ did manage to get it assembled (without the water / dust caps, which would have only confused matters more) and expected it to all pull together nicely when I tightened the through-bolt. As you can see (above) it didn't want to pull tight, and instead the wishbone became too tight to articulate on the trunnion. I pulled it apart again and discovered that I had not been careful enough in cleaning out the rusty-crud inside the wishbone's through hole (into which these bushes fit). . . ^ the lower wishbone arm (light olive coloured) had rusted inside the hole. And although I'd cleaned what I could see near the ends the middle of the hole was still packed hard with rusty crud (red arrows) When the one POM bush (green) and spacer tube (light blue) were tapped in - the inside of the POM bush was pinched tight. I then fitted the other bush in, from the other side, and the same happened. Because the spacer tube is able to rotate on the through-bolt, I hadn't realised that these bushes were being pinched so tight against the spacer tube. Only when both sides were assembled and each spacer-tube was fixed (from rotating) between its washers, by the tightened through-bolt, did things become apparent. ^ I dismantled it all again - and that hardened crud took a surprising amount of aggressive cleaning out with a power wire brush (conical ended). The hole through the wishbones needs to be thoroughly cleaned out back to bare metal, possibly honed to be parallel, if these POM bushes are to work as designed. - - - This afternoon I sought a little more filth .. and by gum did I find it ! . . . ^ I suspected but hadn't actually noted wheel bearing rumbles, and with the disk pads dragging slightly, it was barely discernible hen the wheel was turned - but with the caliper off it was pdo that things could be very much smoother. I pulled the outer bearing out and determined that the inner (larger) wheel bearing was still good to go for time being. The outer one though was flaking its hardened surfaces. The more I cleaned out the grease the worse it felt. ^ click on the photo to enlarge and you'll better see the pitted bearing face of this taper roller. I suspect the inside face (hidden by the roller-bearing cage) is even worse. The silver flecks, seen on the paper towel, are metal particles. It looks as if I caught this just in time. I had bought a replacement wheel bearing kit, and so was a little surprised to find the bearings inside the boxes to have been used. Oops, it happens ..and I've done it myself - keeping the old, used but good bearings on the shelf just-in-case I urgently needed one. This week I want the car back together and on the road again, and so opted to choose / reuse the better of these bearings. As it happens, one of the outer bearings was shot but the other still serviceable. . . After much cleaning out of the old grease, and repacking with fresh (both the inner and outer bearings) it was all reassembled and adjusted. This bearing is not perfect but (before the caliper was refitted) it is many times better than the one I took out. The hub n' disc now turn smoothly. I wonder if this bearing might be the persistent vibration I've been chasing ? Time and testing will tell. ..yeah I know, I'm an incurable optimist ^ Katie's on the ground again I can't judge ride height, tracking or camber until the car has been driven to settle the suspension. The weather forecast says heavy rain this evening but only a slight chance of rain tomorrow ..so all else being well - I'll take her out and see what's what. Bidding you a good afternoon, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 I took Katie out yesterday, on wet roads, just through town and along the A14 dualcarriageway for one junction to Suffolk Fasteners ..where i picked up a couple of bolts with plain shanks for the lower damper mounts. Both sides on this car are presently fitted with a smaller size. Then it was off to the supermarkets for grocery shopping. Bottom line being .. not exactly the ideal test drive for a sports car's front suspension. We then went to the East Saxon's TR Register monthly meeting ..for the time being held at The Cricketers, Fordham Heath, not far from Colchester. That journey was horrid with poor visibility from glaring headlamps (both oncoming and from behind) and road spray. It was made worse by the A14 around Ipswich coming to an almost standstill because of an accident, I think at the Copford Junction roundabout. It took me 50 minutes to do 6 miles, despite diverting via narrow country lanes .. which were brought to a standstill when large lorries who had likewise sought an alternative route couldn't pass each other.! The verges of those narrow lanes were churned up and so there was mud all over the road. Then it was another 20 minutes of dual-carriageway driving in the dark. Again a worthless exercise in testing Katie's revised front suspension. Tracking and camber angles are yet to be checked but.. tbh, for all the effort - the car feels only a bit better. Perhaps more stable at motorways speeds and a little more responsive to tight-corner handling, but not nearly as sure footed as I had hoped ..but perhaps that was as much me as the car. With wet roads, poor visibility and heavy traffic - I wasn't comfortable. The front of the car still seems a little too high, and whereas I feared these (softer) road-springs would drop the front of the car by as much as an inch-and-a-half, I doubt if it has actually lowered by as much as 1/2". Hey Ho, if the weather is dry and mild on Sunday I'll try the car along country lanes. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 Sunday ..drive out in the countryside ^ without leaves on the tress the country lanes were looking a bit bleak ..but today was mild and overcast ..and so for January I'm certainly not complaining about being able to drive around with the roof open Destination was to be Sutton Hoo, museum and Anglo-Saxon royal burial site, but I opted to carry on instead to Orford Castle (keep) which I'd visited before but not since the scaffolding had been taken down to reveal the rendering now applied to the outside of the keep, which is thought to have been applied originally but which had long since washed away. ^ Viewed onto the keep's north side. The people in the bottom right of the photo give you a scale of this castle's keep. The new sand-coloured rendering is to keep water out and help preserve the castle's structure. I had a good conversation with Ben, one of the castle's experts and there's apparently no academic agreement that this tower was, or was not, once white washed. I put it to him that as an aid to shipping (navigation / positioning), and as a statement Royal supremacy and military power then the rendering of this tower would most likely have been washed brilliant white (like the white tower of London was). Seen thus and with the flags of both king and country flying from its towers Then it must have been an easy to spot landmark ..and an awe-inspiring patriotic sight, to any ship passing along the east coast. Ben seemed to be in agreement with these suggestions. Our conversation continued along the lines that the garrison assigned to man this castle was unusually small (for a castle), but its role, as built, was at a watchtower (used as such even during the 2nd WW) ..not least against invasion from the Flemish or French. And a lighted beacon on the top of one of its towers could be seen from Framlingham (just 10 miles away) and also Bewdsey Castle (which i understand was lost to sea erosion), a similar distance away down the coast, military support could be called upon at short notice. ^ Another of the questions I came away with, from my previous visit, was why would have a keep have a kitchen or stove on each floor. The pictures here show the one up in the top of the tower, ie., on the battlements. It is a large oven. The second photo shows its insides, which is probably 4 foot across. Why have an oven right up on the roof ? My suggestion was that a fire had to be kept alight 24/7 ..in case the tower's distress beacon needed to be lit. so if the fire was burning anyway, why not use it to bake bread ? There was also a chimney from the basement, next to the well. And again, just a suggestion was that this would have been for heating water used in the keep. Which sorta fits in with this particular castle being predominantly run by clerics ..who were both scholarly and supposedly more trustworthy to oversee accounts record port fees / import duties. We also discussed a chamber in the basement, seemingly isolated from the main basement where there's the well. In some documents it's referred to as a cell, in others it is said to be a prison. My hypothesis was that it was as cell, which is also a term commonly used to refer to a private room in monasteries, and that it was inhabited by a cleric, but that it's role was not as prison but as a strongroom (which is in the strongest part of the castle) for import taxes paid by merchant ships using this port, and for records of accounts (tally sticks and scrolls) from the local farms. The cell has a separate garderobe (toilet) cubical and a slotted window, neither of which would have been necessary if the space was actual a dungeon type prison. From what I gather, in medieval times an aristocrat or knight.. ie a high-value (ransom) prisoner would be kept in much better accommodation, lesser prisons would normally be kept in a secure room in, or near, the castle's gatehouse (where screams could not be heard by the gentile in the keep), and any other criminal would be locked in the stocks or simply be put to death. Again Ben was kind enough to listen and be open to these / my suggestions. He went on to ask / suggest I put them to English Heritage. So as you might gather, interesting conversations between enthusiasts... castle nerds ? ^ Viewed onto the keep's south-west side - in the afternoon sunshine ^ this erosion of the stone is in the entrance foyer, and a reminder that the building was open to the elements for hundreds of years before being re-roofed and part renovated. It's also a great expense for English Heritage and the other trusts to maintain the building in a safe state for visitors, but at the same time not to just clad everything that was original. ^^ a small selection of Orford museum pieces are on display, some the coins date back 1500 or more years, these (in the photo) are relative modern. I understand that various places had their own mint. for example I was reading the other day about Bury St.Edmund's Abbey, and apparently they minted their own coins. ^ from the keeps battlement ; Katie in the foreground, the town of Orford, the river Ore, and then Orford-Ness (shingle spit of land) with its military testing grounds fading into the East coast / north sea horizon. ^ It was a good visit but soon time to go home.. As I said in my last post, the suspension does feel better balanced (the front-end's handling feels a little more settled), but I feel the ride height is still 3/4" too high for a sports-car. I'm suffering from a twisted-wrist at the moment and so don't wish to push the car, so for now I'll leave it alone - to see how I get on with her over the next couple of months. That's it, and again I bid you a good evening, Pete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted March 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2023 Following a recent very kindly enquiry from Colin S ..as to my whereabouts, I thought I'd take the opportunity of being on-line (on this computer) to copy across some updates from the past month and a bit. . . further conversation regarding Katie's ride hight on that forum continued < here > and otherwise . . . 9th February : Having changed the road-spring rates on Katie, I think probably back to standard TR4A spec, as opposed to TR6 rated springs, and driven the car a hundred miles or so to settle those - I next wanted to check the tracking and cambers . . . ^ nine old night storage heater bricks weighed in on my bathroom scales at ~68 kg (150lb) x 2 seats ..because I do refer to the workshop manual, before I rolled the car back into my getting rather restricted workspace. ^ Using the cord around the wheels (shimmed out on each tyre to accommodate difference in front & rear track widths) I first checked the car's present tracking. The front axle was fine, and the back was close but for the rear left having 0.29deg positive rather than toe-in. I don't think I'd notice less than 1/3rd of a degree crabbing sideways, but as that wheel also has just -0.35 degree of camber, and it should be -1 +/- 0.5 degree on the IRS TR4A - then I'll swap out one of the arm-to-chassis-brackets (one notch difference probably) and at the same time slip in a shim to correct the tracking. As you can see from the above photo I checked the wheel cambers against a spirit-level (..distance from the wheel rim top and bottom to that vertical datum). I'm glad to see that the car is sitting evenly now side to side. ^ I drew these out in AutoCAD, to scale, so that I can see what is what and to measure the angles accurately. ^ Today I added to that with a rough sketch of the front suspension wishbones. Several dimensions are not given in the workshop manual so I've estimated them, but still it ought to be close enough for my needs. I need to adjust the LHS front-wheel camber, which presently measured at +0.94 degrees, whereas according to the workshop manual it should be 0 +/- 0.5 degrees. Personally I prefer just a tad negative camber. Katie's front-right wheel measured at -0.22 degrees ..which is what I'd like on the LHS. On the RHS is of drawing above shows the end view (in this case of the LHS so as if viewed directly from behind). Behind the circle representing the lower fulcrum bush, now mounted into a two stud bracket, I've added three shims (5mm) behind each of those bottom brackets. This according to the drawing swings the upright and hub, and therefore the wheel, out by 1.29 degrees. Given that the car presently has +0.94 then -1.29 degrees ought to give me -0.35 degrees. And that's pretty darned close to what I want. But. . . because the rear of this chassis' fulcrum mounts has been plated over (..so I suspect the suspension's castor is out as well) - I'm presently just fitting the three shims behind the front bracket. Btw the drawing on the left (above) is my plan of the lower wishbones, with three shims behind just the forward lower-fulcrum-bracket. This both swings the lower wishbones backwards - which shorten the wheelbase on this side, by 5mm, and at the same time lessens this side's steering castor angle. It also advises that I'll need to wind-out the track-rod-end by 2.5mm to correct the steering's tracking. . . ^ If logic is anything to go by then by fitting the shims behind just the one bracket (above the shim can just be seen as it was being fitted ..just under under the steering rack) - then instead of those making 1.29 degrees difference (to negative) it ought to make just half that difference. 1.29 / 2 = 0.645 degrees. This side's camber measured at 0.94 degrees positive, so if my calculations are correct - then I'll end up with +0.295 degrees. It's not really what I want but (because of the slapped on plate repair) the studs are too short to also fit 5mm of shims behind the rearmost fulcrum bracket. I'll just have to try it and see. Hopefully I've miscalculated or miss measured something ..and it will all be fine in the daylight If not, then it will still be within design tolerance ..just not as right as I'd like it. Pete - - - for reference should anyone want to know about what difference these shims make to camber angles on the TR4a (TR250, TR5 and 6 are probably the same) ... According to what I've drawn.. one new / probably standard shim (1/16" / 1.67mm thick) behind each lower fulcrum - chassis bracket approximates to 0.43 degrees additional negative camber. Two shims double that, so ~ 0.86 degrees. Three shims ~ 1.29. And if you fit three shims behind one of the brackets and two shims behind the other - then I guess you should achieve very close to 1 degree change in camber (to negative). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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