Desperately Seeking BTE 235L

[ScruffyLookingNH]

Hello everyone

I’m after some help. Back in December 1990 aged 14, I was lucky enough to receive possibly the best Christmas present ever: An incredibly sorry looking Triumph GT6 Mk. III, VRM BTE 235L. It had been used as a grass track racer by the looks of it and had damage to the front end and was in a sorry way. That said, I’ve seen worse. 

I had been after a Triumph to restore for over a year by that time and was keen to get started. Unfortunately my step dad decided it was too much for us, something which I disagree with even 29 years later! It was sent away to a guy near Prestatyn who, to cut a long story short, ripped my step dad off for a lot of money and returned an unpainted shell with boxes of bits.

Disheartened, he sold the car in about 1992.

Fast forward to around 2004 or thereabouts. We attend Tatton Park classic car show and what’s in the auction? BTE 235L in the same sapphire blue I’d wanted for her. Unfortunately I was in no financial position to bid or restore her (she needed it again by then for sure).

I haven’t seen the car for about 15 years and now I would like to track it down. It had a very special place in my heart. At 6’7” I’m a hopeless size for it but that won’t stop me! 

Attached below are images of a book I still own that I received the same Christmas. I wrote inside the cover at the time. I’ve blurred the engine no.  and chassis no. out.

I do appreciate the current owner may have no intention of selling whatsoever and that’s fine. Truth be told, I don’t have a garage just yet to keep a car in although that’s changing soon. At this stage I would simply like to speak to the owner and hopefully see the car again. If even that is off the cards then I’d like to pass my details on to them (even if through a third party) in order to be contacted should the car come up for sale in the future. 

Thank you if you’ve taken the time to read this far.

Simon

[Paul H]

BTE 235L is currently not taxed or on SORN or has an mot  history since 2003 

BTE235LTRIUMPH GT6

Check another vehicle

ColourBlue

Fuel typePetrol

Date registered28 June 1973

First MOT dueUnknown

Not good news 

Paul 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

Paul, I had a look on the gov site as I bumped into a nice chap and his wife in Chichester in their beautiful Mk III just yesterday and he suggested it.

I wasn’t sure how to interpret that result as I had wishfully thought that as it was tax exempt they simply hadn’t bothered to SORN it. Is that just being optimistic? And as for the MOT I lost all faith in that result when it said it hadn’t had its first MOT. Again, just being optimistic?

Given those results is it likely it’s been scrapped/broken up for spares? It was around 2003 I saw it at auction which may not be a coincidence. 

Is there anyway of finding out if it’s been scrapped?

[ScruffyLookingNH]

Oh dear  Just paid a couple of pounds for a report. It looks like it has indeed gone forever. Absolutely devastated. Would love to hear from anyone who knows what happened to it. My best guess at this point, given I saw it at the auction in around 2003 is that it was either used as a donor vehicle (seems odd as it can’t have been that bad when I saw it and think it achieved around £2,600) or, more likely, it was written off in an accident or even fire whilst being restored. 

 

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

Just as a point of interest, it had the same chassis and engine number when scrapped as it did during my brief period of ownership:

 

[Paul H]

Hi MOT reporting online only started in 2003 

Paul 

[dougbgt6]

SORN was introduced in 1998, my car was off the road before that and I didn't have to SORN. However, the rules have changed and now your car HAS to be SORN'd or taxed, else they're gonna come after you for back tax. So BTE235L is almost certainly a goner. 

db

[Colin Lindsay]

15 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

SORN was introduced in 1998, my car was off the road before that and I didn't have to SORN. However, the rules have changed and now your car HAS to be SORN'd or taxed, else they're gonna come after you for back tax. So BTE235L is almost certainly a goner. 

db

And another point for the worse: you don't have to do it every year any more, so any car can be declared SORN and then never heard off for years after. At least when you did it yearly you had the most recent date as a guide.

[dougbgt6]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

almost certainly a goner. 

And I don't mean associated with The Arsenal. All though that would be unfortunate.

db

[Colin Lindsay]

Goner. Not gonad.

[dougbgt6]

Come on you Irons!  (Hammers, not hoofs, obviously)

db

[ScruffyLookingNH]

On 01/07/2019 at 19:12, Colin Lindsay said:

And another point for the worse: you don't have to do it every year any more, so any car can be declared SORN and then never heard off for years after. At least when you did it yearly you had the most recent date as a guide.

This has been bugging me so I spent a few more pounds on a full report. Whilst yes, the vehicle is scrapped and, no doubt, 15 years ago, the good news is no Certificate if Destruction has been issued and, just as importantly, it’s not a Cat A or B write-off. 

 

What that means is, if I can find whatever remains, even if it’s a bare shell....it can be put back on the road. As horrifically uneconomical as that may be, economics don’t come into it. This is a purely sentimental pursuit. 

 

Does anyone know any way at all of finding a trail? I know the DVLA will not give out information as to the last registered keeper. Oulton Park (it was Oulton, not Tatton where I saw it auctioned) are unlikely to retain records that far back. Appeal in the club magazine is almost too much of a long shot to consider could be the only reasonable next step. 

 

 

[NonMember]

If it was scrapped shortly after being sold at auction then it was probably bought as a donor. Its bits will be scattered. There was never a "certificate of destruction" for my old Herald but its engine is in my Spitfire and what little good metal there was on it has been turned into patches for various repairs - some of that in my GT6's windscreen surround. Gearbox and diff were both used as exchange units. Seats were sold. Wheels are on my Vitesse. That Herald has been quite comprehensively destroyed but there's no certificate because it wasn't an insurance write-off.

[ScruffyLookingNH]

24 minutes ago, NonMember said:

If it was scrapped shortly after being sold at auction then it was probably bought as a donor. Its bits will be scattered. There was never a "certificate of destruction" for my old Herald but its engine is in my Spitfire and what little good metal there was on it has been turned into patches for various repairs - some of that in my GT6's windscreen surround. Gearbox and diff were both used as exchange units. Seats were sold. Wheels are on my Vitesse. That Herald has been quite comprehensively destroyed but there's no certificate because it wasn't an insurance write-off.

Yes, it did occur to me that is almost certainly the outcome but it comes down to the philosophical question of at what point is the car no longer the car? If you replaced 10% of the entire car every year when is it no longer the car you bought? Personally, whilst not ideal, if it has most of the shell intact and bears it’s original chassis number, they’ll do for me. 

[Colin Lindsay]

31 minutes ago, ScruffyLookingNH said:

Yes, it did occur to me that is almost certainly the outcome but it comes down to the philosophical question of at what point is the car no longer the car? If you replaced 10% of the entire car every year when is it no longer the car you bought? Personally, whilst not ideal, if it has most of the shell intact and bears it’s original chassis number, they’ll do for me. 

I always wonder, when owners show off their Mazda-engined Ford-gearboxed Subaru-diffed Triumph with MGF seats and Montego wheels, Capri calipers and Rover suspension, what percentage of the car is still Triumph? You could argue that a leather sofa is still a cow, as the outer skin is still animal hide, and the internals are out of sight...

(No offence intended to anyone who has done it, by the way - just playing devil's advocate....)

[ScruffyLookingNH]

🤣 Brilliantly put!

I started restoring cars at the age of 14, Heralds mainly as they were super cheap (this was about 1990). Pattern parts always bothered me. Even original replacement panels, when you could find them, bothered me. I always preferred cutting out the rotten and shaping some steel to weld in just so I could keep as much of the original part as possible. 

However, as I got older it occurred to me that the "original" panel I was trying to save may not have been original at all. And also time become more of a concern that money. 

As for BTE, it can never be the same car I owned but that's just the way it is. I'd rather have it in any form that bears it's original registration than no form at all 😊

[Colin Lindsay]

47 minutes ago, ScruffyLookingNH said:

🤣 Brilliantly put!

I started restoring cars at the age of 14, Heralds mainly as they were super cheap (this was about 1990). Pattern parts always bothered me. Even original replacement panels, when you could find them, bothered me. I always preferred cutting out the rotten and shaping some steel to weld in just so I could keep as much of the original part as possible. 

However, as I got older it occurred to me that the "original" panel I was trying to save may not have been original at all. And also time become more of a concern that money. 

As for BTE, it can never be the same car I owned but that's just the way it is. I'd rather have it in any form that bears it's original registration than no form at all 😊

I spent over £400 back in the 1990s to have the bonnet of my 1200 Estate rebuilt by a local bodyworker, as I wanted to keep as much of the car as possible - I was concerned about originality as the rear part of the car was almost completely gone when I found it. These days I'd just stick a replacement bonnet on and count the money saved...

But if we can find BTE for you, we'll do it.

[ScruffyLookingNH]

38 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I spent over £400 back in the 1990s to have the bonnet of my 1200 Estate rebuilt by a local bodyworker, as I wanted to keep as much of the car as possible - I was concerned about originality as the rear part of the car was almost completely gone when I found it. These days I'd just stick a replacement bonnet on and count the money saved...

But if we can find BTE for you, we'll do it.

Without sounding too unhinged: that's heartwarming to hear, thank you   I've often wondered what happened to this car or that car. I know my first real car I had to actually drive, a VW Betele 1200 reg WLG 816J (awful thing) was written off (heard it through the grapevine). I have often Googled my second real car, a surprisingly lovable Morris Marina 1700L reg SMB 45V but seeing as I sold that in the late 90s and they were deeply unloved I'd bet a pound to a penny that's well and truly scrapped. But BTE I always had a sense of inevitability in it's survival and a reunion. Even with the news of its scrapping I still can't shake the feeling....

I believe that someone in TSSC knows the person who bought the vehicle, even if they don't know they know it! 

I have spoken to Morton's who now run the Tatton Park Classic Car Spectacular and they suggested trying H&H who they believe used to run the auction. I contacted H&H and they have never sold BTE and the very helpful chap I spoke to says he has been there since 2001 and H&H haven't run an auction at the show since that time.  This means either my memory is poor and I saw it go though in the late 90s/2000 or someone else ran the auctions there when I saw it. I'm favouring the latter of these two theories as I'm quire certain it wasn't 20+ years ago I saw it. 

I've tried the magic of Google and I'm coming up short on more details of auctions at Tatton Park at that time or even details of the event organiser back in the day. I will spend some more hours trawling the internet to see what I can find. 

Rather than Google, my best bet may be getting hold of some classic car mags from the late 1998-2003 and going through those looking for adverts and articles on the show. It was always big and always a good show so someone, somewhere will have covered it. Popular Classic and Practical Classics were my favourites back then so that's where I'll look first....