Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: Colin a warped cast iron head is not a common problem think i would back of each nut one at a time 1/2 a turn and retorque to 46 lbft as a first attempt before you rip it all apart pete Thanks to all for the very welcome support; went out for coffee this morning and have come back determined and ready. And full of Cappuccino. The engine has not been started yet, that was very very close after the rebuild and I'd just added oil and water. It has not even been turned over. I was hoping that since I'm so close I could get the dash wiring finished - I discovered where the extra black earth wire goes - and am ready to fit the wooden part of the dash and mount the switches and gauge. If I do that then, with the rear part of the loom disconnected, and the headlight wiring safe enough (no bonnet fitted) I could attempt a startup, in the hope that the heat will cause expansion and settling in of the components. However, if it's the head gasket I'd be very reluctant. I checked the head nuts that were visible the other night, and retorqued slightly but not those under the rockers. That's today's job. If seeping coolant is anything to go by, and it's really difficult to tell, the leak seems to be at the front corners near the water pump housing, but since I used sealant on that after the last refit it can't be leaking from behind the housing. I've drained the system so many times I'm expecting to find shipwrecks. Today is slacken the head nuts and retorque to about 46; book recommends 42 - 46 but I usually go for the higher with heads. The head gasket was on the shelf for ages, I've about half a dozen all in packets, and luckily I also have a spare head as a last resort, although it hasn't been refurbished - the current one got new valves springs and guides. I just don't get where the water is leaking from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 Ok, that's all headstuds removed and retorqued. Two of the studs came out with the nuts so had to be replaced, so I tightened all of them with a stud puller; I could only grip the very ends so this had the effect of lightly damaging some of the threads and made it difficult to replace the nuts, however once started they went on ok. All retorqued to 46 in sequence. I'm going to wait until I'm sure that all drips are off the engine before refilling; no point in crying over old drips. One thing I did notice - no idea how it happened but since I rebuilt the engine I can blame no-one else: Two of the rocker pedestal studs had washers... at the base. The other two didn't. Don't ask, I'm still headscratching but at least they're now all removed. And... just to stick two fingers up at me and really piss me off, the diff decided to dump a Lake-Geneva-sized pool on the floor at the rear. This was due to me tipping the car to get the engine level, raising the rear so that the oil has risen over the edge of the pinion seal. I'll top up later when it's due to go back on the level again. Now I know this car really hates me. The extra black earth cable doesn't go where I thought it did, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 18, 2022 Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 oil be seeing you comes to mind Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 On 18/01/2022 at 08:44, Peter Truman said: been in the same boat this last week Colin with carbs on both the Sprint and Vitesse, new Spindles on the Sprints SU's caused butterfly seating issues see Fuel section of forum, and the Vitesse was leaking fuel whilst running from the rear Strom carb, pulled the float cover off (hate those 6 slotted fixing screws so have purchased 40 allen headed 5/32 32 TPI screws, Just a follow up re the Stromberg replacement Float Chamber Screws, they arrived today and the 4 long bolts per carb are about 1/16 too long so a quick grind on the wheel & the two short one's cut down to size too & I've replaced the Vitesse's standard slotted cheese heads with the S/S #8 (5/32in) by 32tpi UNC Socket Head Allen screws so much easier to remove and do up, esp insitu when everything's upside down and the slot is a pita to find!. Pic showing the old and new screws below, cost $25. Now to do the modified Spit 1500 dual 150CD Stromberg Carbs too, and the spare set of 150CD's I've just rebuilt, that's 36 of the 40 screws I brought used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Did copper grease them but now I know threads length etc are OK I will get M/S alternatives as there is moisture from the petrol in the fuel bowl and when I took the cheese head cap screws out they were moist. Irrespectively I seem to have to take the float bowls off frequently enough I doubt they’ll have time to seize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Peter Truman said: so much easier to remove and do up, esp insitu when everything's upside down and the slot is a pita to find! Nice! I've a few shiny bits to buy this week, nuts and bolts among them. The 13/60 only has one Stromberg and once it's rebuilt - off the car, on the bench - it's back in place and that's that. No intention of trying to do it upside down, I'm not so flexible any more and besides the engine side valences get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 OK SO THAT DIDN'T WORK! We're still leaking from the Estate engine, it's the same thin bead along the edge of the head gasket that runs towards the rear, pools on the engine block serial number and drips off at the back of the block. The head is going to have to come off again, along with all the other bits. Well, it can wait. As a pick-me-up I started in earnest on the 13/60. The bodyworker is coming to collect the bonnet on Monday and has decided to take the entire car which actually makes the bonnet easier to transport. The front of the bonnet is a nightmare of paint-over-rust and poor welds, with that lower corner around the sidelight looking especially suspect. I think it's more filler than metal, but we'll only know once we start in. The engine stripdown is as expected; rust - although the nuts and bolts came off surprisingly easily on many of the components, I think many of them had either worked loose or had never been properly fitted - and sludge. Not only was the thermostat housing full of gunk, but the radiator required numerous flushes, although I've already had a spare recored and the flushing was just to lighten the weight. Half of a flowerbed's worth of dirt came out. Removing some of the pipes revealed a solid mass of tightly compressed matter, and in fact this part of the under-manifold pipe snapped off during removal. That's a new stainless version on the cards, then. I've already bought all new hoses, plus thermostat and core plugs, so all will get a good flushing out which should help with cooler running. No wonder the heater was always so good although the gauge never read high. Other delights include a home-made bodge soldered on to the oil pressure switch, and a broken-off mounting on the manifold. I was fairly sure that I'd need a replacement manifold, anyway. I've already sourced and refurbished an inlet manifold, and as I could see bolt heads at the exhaust joint I knew that this one had also been touched by the hands of bodge. The fuel lines and brake pipes are like spaghetti junction, the loom has too many 'add-ons' that will have to be addressed and the PO was just too liberal with the brush-on underseal. Underneath the car, I'm grateful for the appearance of respectability that it gives the bodywork, but under the bonnet it just looks yuck. Still, I've found a use for the petrol I've just drained from the tank.... Off now to order a few spares, try to find a replacement manifold, and get the necessary bits removed for the sandblaster. The Estate can just sit in the naughty corner and dwell on what its' done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Have I missed an episode somewhere? Is the white vitesse bonnet actually on your 13/60? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 30 minutes ago, Chris A said: Have I missed an episode somewhere? Is the white vitesse bonnet actually on your 13/60? Of course!! The 1200 estate has a 1200 bonnet, as does the early 1200 convertible, but the 13/60 has a Vitesse bonnet. Keep up, guys! However at the moment two of them have no bonnet at all and the 13/60 will be losing its' bonnet on Monday. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 That makes it clearer, plus of course they are all white so the differences are obvious . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 There only the cars Colin's owning up to, how many more are hidden away from SHMBO! A friend had one immaculate Sprint in the official garage, but 10 others hidden in various farm sheds around Vic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 13 hours ago, Peter Truman said: There only the cars Colin's owning up to, how many more are hidden away from SHMBO! A friend had one immaculate Sprint in the official garage, but 10 others hidden in various farm sheds around Vic! I'm actually the reverse; only have one other in storage but have lost contact with the guy storing it and am afraid to ask... However I've stored cars for others in the past, in fact at one point three, and if asked I was to swear they were mine. The problem with that was, every time I walked past them I saw something that needed doing and would end up doing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 It's been a very busy few days with the white 13/60; stripping down a car is simple and takes almost no time at all, as I've found over the years. It's putting it back together again that takes time. Three spanners and two screwdrivers can do a lot of damage. The engine bay is now completely stripped out bar the engine itself; that's today's job - engine and gearbox onto hoist, and away. The starter motor and the wiring loom have both now been removed; the loom needs a good clean and a rewrap (if I can identify a good professional product with which to do it - not cheap insulating tape) plus there are one or two errant wires that need replacing. I've no idea where that blue one goes to through the bulkhead, but it was attached to a black and brown one that's now removed. The headlamp circuit especially is a nightmare of Scotchlocks and joints, many of which are unnecessary. Once the engine is removed work on the car will stall until it is taken away for repairs to the bonnet, but I'll have the engine and overdrive gearbox upgrade to work on in the meantime. However: it's interesting the things you find on an old car. According to the data from BMIHT that came with it, this is a 1969 build, sold in 1970 and registered in March 1970. I've already spotted one or two small clues in the bodywork - the wipers being in-board of the screenwashers, for one thing, which points to an earlier model, but it was the heater assembly that I really couldn't wait to get to grips with. This is what I found, once the DG heater was removed: The entire heater panel is a screw-on version, NOT welded, and you can see the square holes for the small spring clips that take the self tappers, so it's not a PO bodge. Those are factory cut. This looks like a bulkhead that was originally despatched with no heater, and an after market panel has been added at some time through the years. The panel itself has indentations for the screws, so again is not simply a weld-on section from another car - it has been supplied separately, and it has the long drain pipe from a very early car, although going by the smears of sealer around this, it may have been added later and the welds covered over. Everything seems to point to a very early bulkhead on a very late model. It's a very interesting setup which I've never seen before, but I'll make full use of the access given by it's removal to tidy up the bulkhead area. The intention is to have this entire area sprayed white again, once the bodyworker has identified the correct shade of paint required. I don't know whether to have him do it, at £20 per hour - the cost soon mounts up, mostly in preparation work - or have a friend do it for nowt. The suspension turrets also require respraying in white but need sandblasting first; I've run out of spare useable turrets so can't have a set in readiness for a straight swap. I don't need these areas in concours condition, just clean and bright. Decisions... In the meantime the heating system itself is quite interesting. The top grille is simply a screw-in panel - see photo above - that will hopefully respond to sandblasting and respray, but the actual heat distribution setup in the car is also... different. Heat to the feet has been the priority, so the screen demisters were simply disconnected and two short pipes added in their place in order to have heat blasted straight to the occupants' legs. I like the idea - as does 'Er Indoors - so may look at modifying a spare flap box to perform the same but look slightly more... professional. Possibly just connecting the screen demister on the driver's side would be required, and give her a big cloth to wipe her side.... it's 'see out or warm feet, woman! Take your pick!' The gearbox tunnel was also entertaining, being sealed with large pieces of foam sponge, one running the entire length of the tunnel cover and wrapped in green plastic, but the other just stuck under the carpet. I suppose I should be grateful that there's any metal left, but the oil leaking from various components will have helped. There were two gearstick seals, one inside the other - to be sure, no doubt - but the tunnel cover itself is too moth-eaten to be reusable. I'll refurbish an old one. After all of this, the main priority is to get the bodywork presentable both inside and out. All of the door shuts and the entire underside of the bonnet look to have received a coating of Waxoyl or the like, and it's literally everywhere. The doors will have to come off anyway but at present copious amounts of petrol, drained from the tank which itself is coming out soon, seem to take it off the paint. There's also a really annoying dry, dusty coating on the floors, including the boot floor, which looks like ages-old adhesive. Underneath, the paint is clean, if dull, so it takes a lot of elbow grease to remove. I know no-one will ever see it but I know it's there... So: a lot of man-hours required, but at least I'm cheap and easily paid. I'm in two minds about the rear seatbelts... leave, or remove? I can't see the car ever being four-up, and I suppose they can always be replaced if required. I'll take plenty of photos and salt them away just in case... Right! Engine removal time. Off we go... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 23 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: However I've stored cars for others in the past, in fact at one point three, and if asked I was to swear they were mine. The problem with that was, every time I walked past them I saw something that needed doing and would end up doing it... I'll just pop round with mine for you to 'store' for a while then? I can even leave a list of jobs to be done with it 😁 Mind you it looks as if you have enough to keep you busy for a few weeks already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Last photo has the convertible vertical rear brace been repaired/welded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Peter Truman said: Last photo has the convertible vertical rear brace been repaired/welded? I'll check later but it's possible that the 'weld' is just remains of the felt strip that runs down that bit, painted over. However it is a converted saloon, converted sometime between 1974 and 1980, then revamped in 1990, so there are all sorts of bodges and bits; yet the tub is a convertible tub so didn't need the deck or other convertible bits replaced or attached. It's got 13/60, 1200 and Vitesse bits and is just about to get a Spitfire gearbox too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said: It's got 13/60, 1200 and Vitesse bits and is just about to get a Spitfire gearbox too. so, it's a Her Vit Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 It's a Triumph Bitser! I felt sorry for it, it needs love too. It's a bit like dogs, I have two pedigrees for shows and for looking respectable, but the mongrel is the best fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Colin - As for repairing the loom this may be worth a look... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384320093997 You can probably pick it up from your local electrical factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I used this tape when restoring my Spitfire loom and was very pleased with it. (Sadly the loom then got shorted and horribly repaired by a garage so I ended up just buying a new one…) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I used this tape on the harness of my Vitesse , it’s non adhesive , makes for a good finish https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/348/category/68 Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I like that, Paul - nice finish. I just want something more durable than cheap insulating tape, so will explore all the options the team have posted. Today has been a busy day - the question arises: how many Ulstermen does it take to remove an engine? Well, one, I suppose, the same guy to raise the engine then move the car around it. This is the Lindsay patent method of engine removal. Attach the engine to the hoist, raise it up, turn it sideways so as to clear the space between bulkhead and bonnet, then move the car sideways on a trolley jack. You do need plenty of room but it works, especially when you remember to disconnect the exhaust first. Only a minor point, that. ☺️ Exhaust duly disconnected, the engine lowers down onto my patent engine trolley, which is an old hospital chair - more of a patient trolley than a patent one. It balances nicely and can then be wheeled off to a more roomy area for dismantling. Probably the same as happened to the patient. I removed the manifold - surprisingly easy, nothing was seized - then off came the bellhousing, most of the nuts being less than finger tight. This is my first proper look at the old gearbox, which is being replaced by a Spitfire overdrive version. I couldn't make out the serial number at first - is that CP, or CR? Eventually I decided it had just been poorly stamped and was in fact GB. This is an export serial number, but bears up the fact that parts from a Kerry-registered Herald were also used in the most recent restoration in 1990. I reckon that was the last time any kind of servicing was carried out, too. Removing the bellhousing gave me the chance to inspect the clutch, which strangely enough did appear to be less worn than I had expected. Any chance of trying to reuse it, maybe as an emergency spare, were short lived when I saw the state of the pressure plate. Yes, that is an enormous groove right the way round, worn quite deeply into the metal. A quick inspection of the rear of the clutch plate revealed the cause as the rivets on the plate, some of which have worn so badly they've actually dropped off. We'll not be using any of those components again, which again were probably fitted in 1990 and not changed since. Thankfully the wear has been confined to the clutch side, not the flywheel. I'll need an entire clutch kit, which I'm hoping is the same for the 13/60 as for the Spitfire 1300 which the new gearbox was taken from. 6.5 inch and ten splines, if I'm remembering correctly. Apart from that, most of the work in the next few days will be degreasing, cleaning and repainting. Everything is soaking in oil, so will need a good clean before the paint will stick. The chassis is surprisingly good, probably due to the quantity of oil but with the engine out I did notice a slight PO mod, a little hole drilled into the top rail on either side. I'm assuming it's for some kind of rustproofing, probably for disposal of the old engine oil if indeed there ever was any. The PO probably just connected the engine breather to it, and the oil was the original Stanpart going by the colour when I first changed it in August. The plan is to clean it up, add about ten gallons of liquid Waxoyl, heated to tea-like fluidity by judicious and careful heat, then plug the hole with a grommet. That should stop any further internal rust for the next decade or so. You have to think ahead, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 You've got everything else in that garage now you need a pair of hydraulic wheel trollies to move the car around out of the way! would be very good as your garage floor is smooth and level, next birthday or fathers day pressy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: clutch kit, which I'm hoping is the same for the 13/60 as for the Spitfire 1300 It certainly should be, as the single rail box with the fine splines was only fitted to 1500s. I'm running a 13/60 flywheel (and clutch, I think) with a Mk4 Spitfire gearbox on my 1500 Mk3 bitsa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I thought all Herald 1200 gearboxes were GB prefixed? (Unlike the commission numbers) Then the 13/60 went to GE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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