The embarrassing Herald restoration thread - saggy and off-centre, just like me...

[mark powell]

4 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

She doesn't drive it! Hates it... too used to the 'invulnerability' of the Freelander, she can't see over the hedges in my car either.

Love it!! Too complicated for me to install or experiment with but it's a great idea. That 'water' reading is interesting; is it a needle, or a large coloured area?

It seems to be missing the gauge for that section...

[Colin Lindsay]

Lol yes, should have read that on big pc rather than small phone 

[Peter Truman]

Colin there's a NOS Herald fuel gauge insert 148706 on eBay currently 25 quid item No 374267222942 it has the red emergency fuel level marking.

[Colin Lindsay]

10 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Colin there's a NOS Herald fuel gauge insert 148706 on eBay currently 25 quid item No 374267222942 it has the red emergency fuel level marking.

Same as the one I have (left in the photo) but it doesn't fit the other gauge. If you look at the photo and compare the markings, the Herald (left) gauge has the markings closer to the centre, whereas the right-hand (unknown) version has them closer to the outer edge. This meant that when I actually fitted the Herald gauge - which for some reason was not a completely straight fit either - the markings were half obscured inside the casing, and looked out of place compared with the two other gauges. The needle on the Herald version sits more towards the top and I think there's fouling with the casing. I ended up with a perfect fit, minus reserve marking, by using the other unknown but working gauge.

It's interesting to see how the right-hand gauge is marked and spaced; one dot between full and half, for 3/4, but two dots between half and empty, (6ths?) I think for the first while I'll just keep it well off empty and see how accurate it is, and if needs be stick some red cellophane on the glass.

[Pete Lewis]

the dots are calibration points for use in  manufacture

pete

[Peter Truman]

Colin here is the Wolseley 1500 multi-function instrument, I agree the temp gauge anti clockwise movement would do my head in too.

[NonMember]

10 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

I agree the temp gauge anti clockwise movement would do my head in too.

But if it went clockwise then the needle would move DOWN to indicate HOT - that would do my head in!

For that matter, you seem to have no problem with the fuel gauge moving anti-clockwise?

[Peter Truman]

I suppose both oil and temp rise to the top but temp just not. Right to me 

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, NonMember said:

But if it went clockwise then the needle would move DOWN to indicate HOT - that would do my head in!

For that matter, you seem to have no problem with the fuel gauge moving anti-clockwise?

Clockwise is the term - top of the dial, the gauges move from left to right. Bottom of the dial, they move right to left. It just seems 'natural', but even more so that anything showing an excess goes right - heat, revs, speed etc, and anything showing a drop goes left - fuel, oil pressure etc. 

Oil pressure, temp, vacuum, revs, speedo etc all move clockwise or left to right, in much the same way as rotating switches, in this country at least, turn clockwise on and anti-clockwise off. Flick switches are down for on and up for off, anything else is strange - including the sideways switch for the Herald fan. The red main beam warning light of early Heralds takes some getting used to. 

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

the sideways switch for the Herald fan

Out of simple curiosity which model(s) had that? 

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

Out of simple curiosity which model(s) had that? 

Earlier models, the 948 and 1200.

[Chris A]

Thanks Colin, looks like the same switch though. Triumph, don't you just love their logic!

[Colin Lindsay]

 Every day I take the Herald out, there's another assortment of 'clues' underneath as to what's leaking, and where. Gearbox and diff are thankfully clear but this is all engine:

                                                                                         

The large pool to the top left is water, the long strips are engine oil, and the little one at the front is a coolant drip - you can see where it has splashed as it hits the floor. The oil is from round the sump, so the sump requires removal, hammered flat to remove the usual dimples round the bolt holes, then refitted with a better gasket and some sealant. As for the water, well... maybe I should start building an ark out of old dashboards.

I thought I had cured the front drip by replacing the water pump so possibly the water here is simply the expansion tube. I doubt it, but it's not excessive. The rear of the engine however is a different matter:

Yikes! The heater valve is seriously defunct. I'm lucky in that I had some spares, but then proved unlucky in that the first one I fitted leaked just as badly. I once bought eleven of these valves on eBay for £77, but over the years have sold them on or given them away and of course now that I need one, I've got one left. Maybe that's all I need. It's now fitted and appears leak free.

  

Sadly once they leak like that there's absolutely no way of repairing them. Over the winter I'll look at suitable modern alternatives but as I've a run tomorrow I hope this one holds. The Internet / kit car sites and eBay are full of different versions so it's just a case of what fits and looks the part. The original valves by Ranco are used by many American cars of the period, plus some Volvo, but I'm not hooked on originality; just something with the hose layout pretty much the same as the original, that will take the existing hoses. There are also firms that will repair the original DG valves, so might be worth looking into. That's my last NOS unit! Nor are they cheap... depending on the application, of course.

[Josef]

When mine gave up I ended up switching the whole heater box out for a Smiths one. Buying the heater box, having the matrix cleaned and checked, having the box blasted and powder coated and reassembling with new insulation etc still worked out less than a new valve.

[Colin Lindsay]

8 hours ago, Josef said:

When mine gave up I ended up switching the whole heater box out for a Smiths one. Buying the heater box, having the matrix cleaned and checked, having the box blasted and powder coated and reassembling with new insulation etc still worked out less than a new valve.

I might do that; seems an easier option sometimes.

However: out for a run today, after 30 miles the radiator was down maybe three inches. Topped up, headed off in convoy, and 90 minutes later we were well down, despite the gauge still reading normal - it took maybe three pints to refill. One of the club members reckoned it was the radiator cap, which he stated was incorrect, so we worked on that, and at our food stop an hour later we were down maybe an inch at most after 35 miles.

Just got home, parked in the garage, little pitter-patter on the floor, so opened the bonnet and - it's the water pump. Exactly the same as the one I removed - water pouring out of the large hole in the underside. What annoys me about this is that it's one of the ones I had refurbished by E P Services a while ago, so I assumed it was a good pump ready for refitting. I think I'll just go for a modern pump, whatever isn't too Indian-made if anything can be found, and fit that as a service item to be disposed off every two years or so. If anyone has suggestions for good pumps, for a late 13/60 engine, I'll be grateful.

[johny]

17 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Just got home, parked in the garage, little pitter-patter on the floor, so opened the bonnet and - it's the water pump. Exactly the same as the one I removed - water pouring out of the large hole in the underside. What annoys me about this is that it's one of the ones I had refurbished by E P Services a while ago, so I assumed it was a good pump ready for refitting. I think I'll just go for a modern pump, whatever isn't too Indian-made if anything can be found, and fit that as a service item to be disposed off every two years or so. If anyone has suggestions for good pumps, for a late 13/60 engine, I'll be grateful.

Doesnt the EP services one have a lifetime guarantee? Suppose you have to pay postage though🙁

[Colin Lindsay]

Just now, johny said:

Doesnt the EP services one have a lifetime guarantee? Suppose you have to pay postage though🙁

Worth checking, I still have the invoices.

[PeteH]

Looking at the Parts drawing (Canley). Am I right in saying the seal is a Face seal?. Not a lip seal?.

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

Part 6. Canleys have them at £12 each, but it means removing the brass impellor (7) and resoldering in place; I was always concerned about upsetting the balance and causing vibrations, so leave that (and the proper gap setting) to the professionals.

 

[daverclasper]

31 minutes ago, johny said:

Doesnt the EP services one have a lifetime guarantee? Suppose you have to pay postage though🙁

Would you?, Seems unfair?, if they accept it's not up to standard

I guess even with a quality water pump, never used and dry stored for X amount of time, then not good for seals. I think, even quality pumps, if vehicle is parked up for a few years, then pumps often suffer damage?   

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, daverclasper said:

I think, even quality pumps, if vehicle is parked up for a few years, then pumps often suffer damage?

It's certainly possible - seals often don't like being left standing for a long time. Mind you, the pump on my Spitfire is, I think, the same one that was on the engine when in the Herald, so it spent 25 years without being run and doesn't seem to have suffered.

[johny]

I thought EP machine the pump to replace the seal with a modern mechanical seal and also use ceramic bearings so that as long as you own the car they will repair the pump. Obviously something hasnt been done correctly in this case so could be argued all the costs are down to them....

[PeteH]

With Mechanical Face seals?, Even traces of dirt during assembly can lead to failure, some require "startup" lubrication, Storage, especially long term can also shorten the operational life. My first experience of them came with a new build ship which had them on the sea water cooling pumps, the Spare seal was supplied in a sealed Can!. Fitting them needs almost "clean room" conditions, we where "advised" to run the pump weekly at least, the regeim was to change over pumps as a weekly routine when in use.

Pete

[johny]

Yes its what most modern cars use to seal their coolant pumps although some are electric now and I dont know what they use. As you say it needs the coolant to be kept very clean so have to check with EP services what they install and the limits of their guarantee.... 

[Jon J 1250]

On 24/09/2022 at 09:33, Colin Lindsay said:

Sadly once they leak like that there's absolutely no way of repairing them. Over the winter I'll look at suitable modern alternatives but as I've a run tomorrow I hope this one holds. The Internet / kit car sites and eBay are full of different versions so it's just a case of what fits and looks the part. The original valves by Ranco are used by many American cars of the period, plus some Volvo, but I'm not hooked on originality; just something with the hose layout pretty much the same as the original, that will take the existing hoses. There are also firms that will repair the original DG valves, so might be worth looking into. That's my last NOS unit! Nor are they cheap... depending on the application, of course.

Hi Colin,

James Paddock have them, still not cheap but for those of us with Delaney Galllay heaters it my just be prudent to get a spare whilst they are available.

https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/heater-valve-delaney-galley560612

Regards

Jon